As noted elsewhere on 14 May 04:

It seems as if a large part of the U. S. population doesn't have a clue about serving our Nation, but only reaping its rewards. The divisiveness here seems to this writer to be a lack of understanding of the sacrifice of troops in conflict. Many, certainly not all, active duty personnel have remarked that they joined the military for the educational benefits (me, me, me).

The larger picture is that of the Nation.

It is likely all those years ago that I might not have chosen to be in the military, but was urged to do so because I had little choice at the time and gained much from it.

What I did gain mostly was the idea of a higher calling and a sense of patriotism from service, something that I see missing in a large part of our culture.

With the draft, however that might be structured, any able-bodied person would have to perform some type of National Service for a specified period of time.

Can't see any politician who would sponsor such a bill at this moment...but that doesn't mean it is such a bad idea

Agreed. . . that it doesn't seem like a bad idea when you look at the big picture. Many new people would get a feel for the military, and gain that sense of pride for their country. But at the same time people in this country may not want to serve. If they wanted to serve wouldn't they join? It seems our current AVM is working so why mess w/ it?

I have always been one to think that all people should at least have to attend at least a couple years of military training to learn the basics of followship, leadership, and management. . .there are too many people in this country that just don't have a clue.

I think the all volunteer military is doing ok for the time being. I don't see a NEED for the draft. Granted, it might do some people good to serve in the military, but if we don't NEED them right now, why make them? You have to take what we fight for, freedom, with it's pro's and "con's," IMO.

My simplistic reply is just this.

Military life is not for everyone. Conscription...which is what a draft is...is too easy to use as a political tool.

I was a Draft-Dodger in the 60' and early 70's! Seems like I comprehended the Draft was "involuntary servitude" about '63, when I was 13yo. My Great Uncle served in WWI and was on the Draft Board here from '39 to about '64...he told me the Draft was NEVER needed in WWI or WWII or Korea! Of course, he considered Korea a clusterphouc, though, kinda like I consider Nam to have been a REAL clusterphouch...

Anyhow, I joined in '68, when the MARINES were drawing from the Draft, even though the Marine Chest-Thumpers want to claim they were ALL Volunteers back then...BS!

I came back from Nam in '71, after serving there for TWO years, with the thought that NO American young folks, with ANY friggin' brains, would EVER volunteer AGAIN for such an ill-defined CKUSTERPHOUC as Nam, again!

Oh well, I AM a ****ing old phart, so I was mistaken?

Yogi

I dont see a need for a draft either.
I also hope no one would ever do that to the military. The draft would bring in mostly people who couldnt get college deferrments, as it did in vietnam. And I'm not sure that most of them could handle the high tech.
I do however agree with R Heinlein in "Starship Troopers". If you want to vote or hold elected office, you should have to serve in some capacity for a set period of time. That way we can be more certain that those who we elect, and those who voted for them are more likely to have our country's best interests at heart.

I wonder if the draft makes politicians MORE accountable for their actions rather than LESS?

If you have a draft, and it is readily apparent to all that it is in the Nation's interest, then people will comply. If the pols go off on some grand military adventure, it may be a good check and balance?

But the most important thing of all is that we are...One Nation Under God...and that has been changed since the volunary military thing and many people divide between 'us' and 'them' which is ultimately much more dangerous than a draft. It's a terrible disconnection between our people in this Nation.

Good to see you here OldAFCop. As you know, I've been censored on the other forum for the sin of putting up a valid argument I guess.

For all who don't know, I agree solidly with OAFC. I am for the draft with my preference being that it be made permanent. Every able-bodied male and female should have to perform some sort of federal service upon their 18th birthday with the military being one of several options.

my position exactly as well Thud. That way it might break down some class barriers and also instill a sense of pride and patriotism in today' youth, something that is sadly lacking in some of them.

I think that there are a lot of AVM types running around thinking that somehow they are better than those who are of the draft era and that citizen soldiers are a real threat to their egos....it's pretty clear from all indications that we are running low on personnel given the current commitments we have; and what the heck do we have for back up for additional requirements? The argument that we should somehow do nothing but wait seems to be a pretty dumb argument IMHO, as that's an isolationist point of view.

We have an obligation to the Nation to have at least slightly MORE personnel trained and ready to fight rather than less. Or, you can throw in the towel and be just another 3rd world nation and let everyone else trample all over you, which is the outcome of what seem people seem to be saying.

Whatever happened to the energy and enthusiasm for our way of life?

(Another rant)

AmVet...WHAT is the current breakdown in our Military between non-HighSchool/HighSchool/bit o' College/College Graduates???

Yogi

Yogi, give me until tomorrow night to try and get together the stats on that..you are right tho..this is pretty damn pertinent to the current arguement.

unless you have already?

OldAFCop...I disagree! I came back from NAM after spending two years there...was DISCHARGED the day I hit CA and flew home!

I arrived back here with the thought that NONE of our young folks would EVER fall for such a CLUSTERPHOUC again like Nam...

HOW do you figure that a DRAFT would be a "pressure-release" valve on ill-advised adventurism by our Guvmint in the future???

Seems to me the Volunteer Military IS the REAL safe-guard against such adventurism, just like it was after the founding of this Republic!

Yogi

quote:

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Originally posted by OldAFCop:
We have an obligation to the Nation to have at least slightly MORE personnel trained and ready to fight rather than less. Or, you can throw in the towel and be just another 3rd world nation and let everyone else trample all over you, which is the outcome of what seem people seem to be saying.

Whatever happened to the energy and enthusiasm for our way of life?

(Another rant)

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I don't know if you've seen the movie "Starship Troopers". One aspect of that movie thoroughly enthralled me, in order to become a "citizen" and have certain rights, one must serve. Not a draft, per se, but definitely a way to acquire more volunteers for service. Unfortunately, just being born here is adequate enough to be a "citizen". I think everybody should be obligated to some sort of compulsory service. Maybe not necessarily the military, but at least something like AmeriCorps.

USMC..Do NOT EVER kid yourself! Although I can only speak for the DRAFT during my service in the ARMY, '68-'71, ANYONE who thinks that DRAFTEES during THAT time were substandard individuals WILL have SERIOUS problems with me!!!

The Great ASSHOLER GREENHAT, over in Dat Other Place, has great fun with with this subject...AND I AM anti-Draft, BUT do not kid yourself!!!

Yogi...anti-ASSHOLE Bro...