I'm here for ya Amvet. . .I have a sense of humor, and it's telling me that these forums are too addicting, and that it is time for Yogi to get off his computer and go to bed. LOL. . .just stickin up for the mom of this forum!

Don't know about bein the 'mom' ...lord knows there are far to many night's I have stayed up 'past my bedtime'..

but not tonite..give me another fifteen mins or so and I'm hittin the rack..gotta VA appt. manana..

On the issue "Does The Military Get The Respect They Deserve?" The answer is no, has been no, still will be no tomorrow. As long as the people, that is "we the people" allow our wounded and maimed return to society, with anything less than 100% best of care, that is health and otherwise, meaning: The Military Does Not Get The Respect They Deserve!
We cannot "support the troops" today and forget them tomorrow, if respect for what they did, currently do and will do is forgotten.

Note: the issue of drinking alcohol before 21 is not a good argument. When I was in the Navy, I was not allowed to go into the Chief's Club. Why? Because I was not a Chief. I was not eligible, I was a Seaman duece, then a Seaman and then a BM 3, not a Chief. Just like at 18, I was not eligible to buy whiskey. I did it anyway and got tattoos I hate with a passion. Young people do stupid things when drunk.
I do know alcohol causes many highway deaths. Besides, what has that have to do with respect?

Things may be improving, but the entire VA system is no where near what it should be.

Our politicians are a disgrace. Have been for years. It's not a partisan issue. Whole lotta lip service.

bumping back into view....

Not many of us left.

Maybe people would not be as compeled to join for the "college money" if more money were offered via pell grants etc through the government that kept up with rising tuition costs, when you price people out of higher education you do one of 2 things you create a dunce society and thoes that do go to school have to go into so much debt that if they cant find a job immediatly after school and become another contributor to the massive national debt because they wanted to try to get ahead without some sort of compuslory military service. It is dishonorable and deplorable to dangle college money in someones face to get them to join the military just so they can accomplish what should have been provided to them by the government from there fathers and forefathers taxes. military service should never be part of the equation. The military and the government created this problem now they can lie in the bed they have made these solders have every right to whine, the military is involved in alot of shaddy recruiting and "MOS switching" practices they glorify the benifits and brush over the overwhelming negitive aspects of the military some people call it stretching the truth I call it flat out deception and lies. If the government wants to make 1-2 yrs of military manditory fine, if they want to draft that fine too but to use face saving back door policies is an act of dishonor, they know people wont put up with it if they come out and say it so they shaft honest people through the back door (ie deployment of national gaurd) well people are starting to wake up. The wife of the soldier who signed up has every right to ask the question what the hell was my husband thinking, my wife did luckily I was able to get out without it causing a major unnessicary disruption to my life. No one should ever respect someone just becasue they are in the military, respect comes on an individual basis, a significant number of military members are creeps and dont deserve respect from the civilian population.

Here is an interesting article http://education.military.com/money-for-school/presiden...tion-act?ESRC=dod.nl

You also cant get your drivers licence in europe until you are 21 and it costs you about 2K and is as rigiours as getting a pilots licence in the US thats why they can drink at 18 yrs old. I would rather have the right to drive at 16-18 than to drink.

in cancda we can drink at eighteen and drive when 16 WOOT

quote:

Originally posted by rppearso:
I would rather have the right to drive at 16-18 than to drink.

Gheez, what are you; gay?

lol its ****ing rppearso he ditched cuz poepl were being meanies of course he is gay and if not gay then metro

1. Yes I think in general the military get's the respect they deserve.
2. The yellow ribbons are just idiotic, I'm sorry, but they don't mean shit. They are nothing much that useless rhetoric.

quote:

Originally posted by Aufklarer:

quote:

Originally posted by rppearso:
I would rather have the right to drive at 16-18 than to drink.

Gheez, what are you; gay?

Dude, you're not in the 6th grade...more like 9th.

quote:

Originally posted by Amvet91Alpha:

quote:

Originally posted by Thud357l:

quote:

Originally posted by USMC 7051 8083:
I think that Heinlein had it right in "starship troopers".
Some type of service, military or what he called "federal service" should be required for anyone to be able to run for any kind of elected office.
Heinlein took it farther of course, and required such service for citizenship, but thats a bit too far for me.

I think you've got it right. One of the hidden dangers of an All Volunteer Military is to create a sort of caste system where the military is divided from the general public.

The rich certainly consider what we do beneath them as their children will be offered other options than to serve. I'll wager you can count on one hand the children of our political leaders and captains of industry who have children in the military.

I have been a proponent of Universal Federal Service for some time now. I think it should be a rite of passage for all able bodied Americans. We would not be so quick to go to war but when the balloon goes up we would have a unified nation instead of the divisiveness we have now.

that is a very good point. You don't find that many willing to sacrifice a life of privilege to serve their country like Tillman. Most are from the blue collar class, although of course as with everything, there are exceptions, Tillman's being one of the most noted and prominent ones.

And I too am in favor of some kind of mandatory service, whether military or civil, for all.

You've gotta be kidding me, that's ludicrous. First off starship troopers was a mediocre movie. Second The idea of mandatory service is expanding the power of the government much more than it has any right to go, an all volunteer military is by far the best as the people who go are the people who actually want to fight. Also mandatory service completely neglects those who dislike what the country is doing politically and/or militarily. Finally it entwines the idea of war far to closely to our society. War is something to be avoided not something to be fraking encouraged! War is sometimes a necessary evil no doubt, but it is an evil just the same.

The only issue I take with required service is that while you would have a number of capable and talented individuals in the military at any given time you would also have the opposite end of the spectrum, the whiners and cowards, and they would in all likelyhood end up getting themselves and other people killed if no one noticed their incompetence and fragged them first. Still I would like to see it become a cultural norm for elected officials to have served in some capacity within the military. It can only help them to lead more effectively and would also hopefully give them direct insight into when military action is required and when an issue can be resolved in other ways.

As for entwining the idea of war too close to our society I think that people need to realize what War is and what it is not. They need to feel the effects of war so that they can truly understand it. Today's average citizen is so far removed from this war that he/she can form no personal opinion other than what he/she sees on the news. We haven't had to watch or sons and fathers be drafted, we don't have to ration food or metal, our wives and daughters aren't working in factories. The fact of the matter is that if we don't wan't to feel like we are at war all we have to do is turn off the TV.

quote:

Originally posted by Zacharia Kaplan:
The only issue I take with required service is that while you would have a number of capable and talented individuals in the military at any given time you would also have the opposite end of the spectrum, the whiners and cowards, and they would in all likelyhood end up getting themselves and other people killed if no one noticed their incompetence and fragged them first. Still I would like to see it become a cultural norm for elected officials to have served in some capacity within the military. It can only help them to lead more effectively and would also hopefully give them direct insight into when military action is required and when an issue can be resolved in other ways.

As for entwining the idea of war too close to our society I think that people need to realize what War is and what it is not. They need to feel the effects of war so that they can truly understand it. Today's average citizen is so far removed from this war that he/she can form no personal opinion other than what he/she sees on the news. We haven't had to watch or sons and fathers be drafted, we don't have to ration food or metal, our wives and daughters aren't working in factories. The fact of the matter is that if we don't wan't to feel like we are at war all we have to do is turn off the TV.

Exactly.

And it should be noted that in countries that require mandatory service, you don't have to serve in combat, and there are ways of qualifying for other government services (other than the "military").

I think someone needs to provide a thorough explaination/definition of what "fragging" is so that I can attempt to justify giving the military any respect at all. Cav scout provided his own definition which involved shooting your own troops (whinners or not) in the back. Since you used the term "fragging" in lieu of getting themselves killed I cant imagine it would mean shooting your own troop in the back. When you draft you have to accept that you will get cowards and whinners and you cant say a word because they did not volunteer.

I think there needs to be metal rationing and such because then people will wake up and you will start seeing people leave office by the dozen presidental empeachments and subsequent removal from office. This is not WW2 this is vietnam, vietnam like iraq was never and would have never been a threat to us, the whole scare of terrorism is crap, terrorists come from all over the middle east and checnia.

Also military service to be in political office does not make sence unless they are going to be the president or maybe governor.

quote:

Dude, you're not in the 6th grade...more like 9th.

Oh no, I feel sooooo insulted! Oh, and in case you're wondering, I'm doing my last year in a PPE (BA).

quote:

Originally posted by rppearso:
I think someone needs to provide a thorough explaination/definition of what "fragging" is so that I can attempt to justify giving the military any respect at all. Cav scout provided his own definition which involved shooting your own troops (whinners or not) in the back. Since you used the term "fragging" in lieu of getting themselves killed I cant imagine it would mean shooting your own troop in the back. When you draft you have to accept that you will get cowards and whinners and you cant say a word because they did not volunteer.

Cavscout doesn't want to kill his brothers-in-arms. But if they jeopardize the welfare of him and his men irresponsibly then he has no choice.