Okay.. Gunny.. I'm fulfilling my obligation to stir things up around here [ as per your request - I'm not shouldering the blame on my own ] so I'm posting this ' debate/discussion ' knowing that I'll likely draw fire from a number of sources...

here goes..

At a time when the US military is having to offer huge financial incentives to retain experience personnel after deployments, when they are having difficulties recruiting for the reg force and reserves, when all sorts of ' problems' are surfacing in the retention of service personnel...the Military, between 1994 and 2004 ' released ' up to 10,000 people for being classed as homosexual [ figures supplied by the Washington Post ]

These people were dismissed for no other reason than being ' outed '..

assuming that they were competent and received all appropriate training to carry out their duties properly and this was their only offence.. the cost to the military to recruit replacements and train them up to the same level of ability drained the budget of some ' additional ' $ 200 million..

The usual reasons will no doubt surface here.. can't have queers in the military as they are prone to being blackmailed or are a disruptive factor with the rest of the ' normal ' soldiery.. etc..

frankly, If I was in a sticky situation, I'd rather have someone guarding my six that lusted after my butt and therefore would fight hard to save it, rather than have someone behind me who was more interested in saving his own at the expense of his squad mates...

Who is being 'disrupted?' ..The same ' human interactions' that ' infect ' the straight/hetero population surfaces in the gay community.. envy, jealousy, avarice, self-interest.. etc.. etc..Why kep them out of the military? the old rationale is that they were susceptible to blackmail.If true, it was only because their presence wasn't tolerated; it was kind of a tautology..if gays are tolerated and ' open ' then they cannot be considered a security risk..etc..and so forth..

As for their ability to fight or command or whatever in a situation let us look back into the mist of history and see how ' primitive' cultures exploited this ' difference '..

recall Pelopidas' so-called Sacred Band of Thebes, an inftantry unit made up of 150 pairs of male lovers whose cohesivness was so great that, at the battle of Tegyra in 375BCE, they helped their small Theban force defeat the Spartan Army [ no slackers them, according to history ] a force twice their size...

Sexual orientation is not what threatens cohesivness - in some ways it can strengthen it. What appears to be the real threat of disunity is rather prejudice and the subsequent wrongful discrimination against otherwise capable soldiers..

[ Hey.. an all gay fighting unit.. Pink camouflage!! - let's suggest that for the other thread on the GI camo duds !!]

Okay.. I'm putting on my Kevlar Thong and getting ready for the inevitable backlash..
fire away!!!

Oh, By The Way...

the British Forces dropped the homosexual prohibition 5 years ago [ as did Canada - I know.. none of you think that counts ] and the Brit Air Force actively recruits from the Gay Community [ as they say ] and, so far as statistics can tell - no planes have blown up and crashed because the pilot/crew/ service techs were queer...

In the realm of ' huiman rights' and ' equality '- issues being hotly debated north of your border as Canada votes on whether Gay-Marriage should be legal across the land.. one has to stop and look a bit at the fact that, if, under equal rights and non-discrimuination we allow that Gays can join the military go off and fight and kill or be killed on behalf of the folks back home, then how can we not allow them the same ' benefits' the rest of the population enjoy?..

ooh, maybe the US has it right.. no marriage.. no fighting... then, if they are exempt from certain rights and obligations under the laws of the land.. do they get a reduction in the taxes they have to pay..since they don't get the full benefits of living in the country the ret of us get?..

just asking..
[ am I stirring the pot enough, Gunny? ]

Gays in the military....
Fags,homos,backdoor cowboys,queers,ass bandits,
pole-smokers.......OK got the picture?
I believe that if you don't ask then you can drop the don't tell.Who the f**k cares if you are gay?
In civilian life you simply tell a person"I'm straight"Problem solved.If it isn't then an uppercut takes care of any ambiguity.Should work in the military too.

Interesting and colourful use of epitehts there...funny how comfortably they trip off the keys.. wouldst thou use similar derogatory euphamisms if the question pertained to Blacks or the disabled?..would the response be more pointed and disapproving?

don't mind me.. just stirring the pot to stimulate more board activity..seems that most of the folks are still in bed this Monday morning..[ either that or afraid Big Brother is monitoring their computer use at their workstations using micromanaging keystroke counter systems...and compu-check programmes...]
oooh.. possible topic for another thread??..

Yes indeed.A lot of words.******, kike,frog,
spic,dago,mick,chink.....a lot of words.
My point in posting the euphemisms for gay is that they really don't mean much.
Actions not words.Who cares if someone is gay,or black,or brown,or white,or whatever.Are you a good person?Can I trust you to watch my back?Can I trust you to be a person that keeps their word?THAT'S what is important.
Funny.....I wrote nig**r on my post.That was deleted but all other racial and sexual slurs came across.
Gays in the military?Why not?
I don't take offense at you calling me out on my choice of language.We are in a forum to discuss these very issues.

Interesting topic, The Royal Navy has just launched a marketing and recruitment campaign aimed at recruiting gays, to try and respond to the fall in numbers of recruits.

I am not suggesting that we lower our standards, but if somone can do the jod, hell let them do it, male, female, or sexual orientataion.

Gays dont all go into combat waving handbags, and checking their hair is just perfect, or do they???

Hell, well its enough to provoke and interesting conversation.

Don't forget that camouflage means your clothing NEVER clashes

It's a big deal because we make it a big deal. I have two gay employees. I didn't ask them if they were gay when they were hired though I suspected one was. They try hard and therefore excel at their jobs. Whatever they do with their personal life has never intruded on the job.

I fired a guy a few years ago because he was harrasing one of my best workers. Working with gays doesn't mean they will constantly be hitting on you or displaying inappropiate characteristics. They seem to know who is interested and who is not the same as hetrosexuals.

I judge by performance. Period.

Gays have always been in the military and regardless of the rules – they always will be. The military generally stays ahead of society in accepting unpopular ideas. The military was integrated long before it became the custom in general society and may just do so on the gay issue. The problem lies in a threat that men feel towards homosexuals of their own sex – lesbians do not bother us as much (and some guys are fascinated by them).

I know that I must have served with gay people, though; none of them would dare come out because they would have died in those days. When I was on Fort Eustis, there was at least one court martial a month because of homosexual conduct. I never saw any action because of someone just finding out that someone was gay.

Seeing men kiss each other in a sexual way always makes me turn my head and say something colorful and maybe that is the sticking point. I couldn’t care less if some one is gay but I do not want to see them do stuff in front of me. That also applies to someone in their 80s displaying overt sexual behavior in public because they ware in the parent/grandparent stage of life and we cannot get around that fact. Do I have a prejudice? Yes, but maybe it is because it is so contrary to my heterosexual orientation that I find a hard time getting around it.

Harry,you are not alone in your instinct.I was flipping the channels and on MTV there were two guys walking down the street,swapping spit.Not a sight I enjoy watching.
Just like knowing your parents have sex.You know it but you DON'T want to see it.
Back on topic.Hell I don't think flambuoyantly gay people should be in the military.But what's wrong with don't ask don't tell?

I don't like them, will never like them.....

But they have the same right to serve as I. Don't mean I have to like it, agree with it, put up with it, tolerate it, or condone it.

They got rights too. Not my call, Law says they got rights, and as I consider myself a law abiding citizen, then by god, they got rights.


Besides, there are much bigger issues the military men and women are facing today.

It's the image and the stereotype the military doesn't want. Also remember it is allowed, but it is that catchy phrase, "don't ask, don't tell." Also remember that in the ancient world homosexuality was very common, especially in the military where there was the mentor/protege relationship. And I don't know about you all, but back then they were fit to fight.

But we live in the modern world. Can you imagine what it would do to the image of the military if homosexuality were allowed. There is always that image on TV, on posters, in every civilians mind of that soldier that stands steadfastly on the wall gaurding and ready to kill for the defense of the nation. Soldiers returning overseas running into their wives arms, and kissing their children. The oh so famous picture of the Navy sailor bending his girl over is arm in a dip planting one right on her face. But that hardcore, camo faced, special tactics, badass, weapon holding statue of a gaurdian is the image America portrays. Not that of a teenage boy running to the open arms of his 18yr old boy lover on the tarmac of Dulles live on Fox News. THAT is just NOT it.

quote:

Originally posted by Joe:
But that hardcore, camo faced, special tactics, badass, weapon holding statue of a gaurdian is the image America portrays. Not that of a teenage boy running to the open arms of his 18yr old boy lover on the tarmac of Dulles live on Fox News. THAT is just NOT it.

Maybe we should make 'em sign a waiver that they just get to shake hands.

LMAO

Als u vrede en liefde in deze wereld kunt vinden bent u inderdaad een
groot persoon



translation: If you can find peace and love in this world, you are indeed a great person.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: <coachman>,

I see that some things never change!!!

Hey anybody seen my hairbrush?

Just incase ya all missed her.

No matter how many times I've seen her picture,
Ms Flab Aplenty still makes me laugh.