Nappy:
apparently a dictionary isn't on your ' must read' list or your spell check feature is disabled...

As for me remembering when I was 18..yeah, I remember.. Black and white TV -3 channels...Had to make our own toys [ guns out of clothes pegs ]..spent lots of time reading - got more books on my shelves than the local library.. If you ever need to borrow " Stratigraphy and Sedimentation -2nd Edition " or " Geology of Petroleum " or, maybe, " Fundamentals of Behaviour Statistics " [ a favourite read of mine ].. let me know...

Oh, and BTW, I can see why your 'friends' think you may be a bit weird...

quote:

Originally posted by Rocketeer:
Interesting... do we chalk this animosity against Japan as holding a grudge far too long or justified anger..What was done in the name of Japanese imperialism was under another form of government and another regime.. Japan has been ' remade' and is about as close to a proper democracy as imperfect humans can make it..so, why should we worry about a change in its stance toward protecting its interests in the region? Japan is far less agressive and imperial than the United States at the meoment and is under threateconomically, politically and, I dare sare, militarily, from a rising superpower, China, and needs new tools to protecvt against that potential threat..As well, Japan as a responsible member of the region and a world economic power has an obligation to assist other nation states in ways beyond economics.. Throwing money around to help the tsunami victims etc. doesn't help much in the scheme of things, but feet on the ground counts more..

So, rewriting their contitution to allow for their defence force to have a broader mandate seems reasdonable since we [ that is the rest of the wrold ] allow that in every other nation..
There is no way that the present or foreseeable government of Japan is going to revert to stomping over the other nations as it did in WWII..

personally I like the concept of a Japanese buffer against the more agressive tendancies of a neuveau China...

Besides, its what the US wants for that region.. and we're talking US vs. China as the next inevitable confrontation after America conquers the terrorist...

I think the sticking point is the refusal/reluctance of the present Japanese lreadership to completely and forthrightly apologize or reject the actions of its predecessor rejime during WWII and condemn some of the gross violations of human rights which took place [ as your relatives experienced ]

This would entail denying and revoking a significant parto f Japanese history something difficult for a proud people to face..ion my opinion, the sincs of the past can't be visited on any of the present generation of Japan and we should all just get on with it and accept that it was a dark period in history.. Canada, too has a great deal of animosity toward Japan of the past for atrociti3es against its soldiers and civilians in Hong Kong and elsewhere but, we've moved beyond that..Other nations will have too, too, if they want to see their region of the world grow in peace...

We the asian nations only want:

1. Justice

a. Emperor Hirohito one of the master mind of world war 2 was not punish. Under his leadership, japanese military brutaly killed its asian neighbors. Unfortunately only his generals were hanged. Being the emperor, he should be the 1st to be hanged. Even in the U.S. some states prescribe death sentence to the master mind of a murder, how much more to a mass murderer like Emperor Hirohito.

b. It is on record that Japanese corporations used slave labor during that time. The German corporations that did the same in europe were forced to pay damages. Unfortunately Japanese corporations until now refused to pay damages to its victims.

c. The Japanese army force asian women as prostitues & many of them suffered horible death. Even today, the Japanese government not only refuse to pay damages but worse they do not even acknowledge that such things ever happen.

2. Japan must learn from its history so it will not happen again. How can the japanese learn from its history if the japanese government refuses to teach the truth to its children?

It has often been said that those who fail to learn from history are destined to repeat it

Perhaps their government does not want to hurt the feelings of the proud japanese people.

Yes the truth hurts but lies hurt more

The Japanese are too proud to face its dark past. Let us remember that it was the pride of the Japanese & its arrogance that propel them to go to war. They consider their neighbors as subhumans & treated them like animals. They were so proud & over confident to win that they simultaneously attacked several nations including the US in just one day.

Proverbs 11:2 When pride comes, then comes disgrace, but with humility comes wisdom

Understand your pain there, Bolgie...however.. different people different times.. Hirohito is gone and those who were leading then have been dealt with, if only by history..Do not see how handing out a few thousand yen to some old folks is going to ease their pain over what happened 60 years ago..That being said, having the present government of Japan stand up and say that they're sorry for what a previous government of Japan did may have some value , if only to acknowledge formally, the atrocities that occurred..

I'm sure that there are a great number of Japanese who feel much the same as the present day Germans do about the country's Nazi past.. It was a shameful period, but not one that they created..

Holding a grudge over generations isn't going to solve any issues and, in some cases, thwarts the opportunity for development and betterment by refusing to accept Japanese help, expertise and money offered by today's leaders.

I'm of the opinion that a lot of what is happening in the world today would be fixed if those that think harping on old wounds suffered by great grandfathers by others great grandfathers is worth the continuation of conflicts that see new generations of people suffer and die...

There is justice and there is revenge and there is just plain ' give it a rest already ' and move on...

would like to hear more from your end on this...

heh, no intentions of wanting to go off topic here but cant resist.

Well, thanx, not very much into geology, id rather read biology as I got an A at it. But what did u mean by the dictionary and all..?

so uhh, why do think my friends think am quite strange? if u dont mind sir

Japan has already proven that they cannot be trusted with massive power, they were givin a shot and screwed up.
They also earned th title in WWII as "Most ruthless Military in History" after what they did to the chinese.

They need to stay under our boot so they don't get outta hand again.

OOH.. Faithless Fox.. Who died and made you World Police?.. the only way is the American Way?..

Sins of the Fathers visited on the Sons?

Just cause the WWII Japanese were ruthless cuthroats and the WWII Germans were holocaust Nazi's today's batch are the same?

Guess that means all Americans are bigoted slave owning manifest destiny land grabbing influence peddling , etc. etc...

stuck on stupid

Hey,

I am the son of Military family since the revolutionary war. Let me tell you. My family was in Phillipines with US Army when Mac Arthur ran off and left us to be occupied by the Niponeese. My grand father US Army 1st. Lt., survived the Batan death march. Actually escaped to rescue his brother that the Japs bayonetted and left along the side of the road for dead.

If you think that our allies in China will stand for us giving weapons and shit to the ones who killed tens of millions of their people. No way. They killed More than all the Jews killed by the Nazi's in the halocaust.

Thing is you dont hear about this fact it because the people are so humble. Jews like to whine and get everyones attention over their suffering, when they dont even think about the five hundred thousand phillipinos that died.

To allow the Japs to have a military is asking for problems from china and korea, and phillipines, and entire pacific region. They do not forgive as easily as we might. You might have missed this statement, but China threatened to use "Nukes" if anyone screws with their lands or properties. Remember the ICBM's...the big boys that can go into space and hit any target on the planet.

If they like they can drop them right on the white house. What is disturbing is the India nuke deal. That make me concerned over the Asian region.

So i say dont provoke the Chinese. They have the largest air force in the world, and if you think that their olympic athletes are bad asses that take all the gold medals, I have been over to Xaing Pu. They have something like a million tanks. And millions in their military.

Look the Japs lost their military because they have social issues that they have yet to change. Alot of the men who ran the country in Japan during WWII still rule it from the back of corporate board rooms today.

Make no mistake. Their nationalism and patriotic determination made it the reason why we had to drop nukes on them. They still are the same people, just more capitalistic now.

They will end up pulling us into an all out global war if this goes down. Secondly we are way too weak to fight right now and spread way too thin. If they are allowed to taunt the chineese with military power, it can get ugly or nuclear very quickly.

I say no military for Japan.

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Soltrinox,

Ahhh. Softrocks..or. softsox....
all this pent up WWII Jap agression has to be crushed or all the pent up Commie Chinese agression will come crashing down on an america that is no longer like it was in WWII Instead of Macho Gung Ho leaders like Patton and Ike and a country filled with rah rah kill 'em all combat GI's America has a monkey boy war dodger whose strings are pulled by a sick old draft dodger who rules a country of whining wimpy leftists who cry let's leave Iraq every time a soldier stubs his toe..or am I misreading your tone.

Japan is losing market share to a rampant China [ as is America ] and needs to have some protection territorially, as well, it needs to be involved in the actual ' policing' and protection of the region and the world through physical presence i.e. soldiers on the ground to earn street cred..the problem is that for their own reasons [ and not all of it is long bed memories and worry of ' resurgent impulses '] China and the other asian region countries don't want Japan to have that prominence and stature because, simply, they want it. As always economics is driving this..

As for China building up its military, all for show.. China is buying its way into influence using America's own plans.. Just look at how many ' corrupt ' and shunned regimes in the world China is financially backing to their benefit..

I'll post a piece on Sudan and others in a bit when I get a chance just to show where China's real power is..and it ain't in the size of their guns...

Okzy..here's the scoop on China.. It doesn't want to be the world dominating power, it HAS to be.. for no other reason than, if it isn't, it will collapse from within into anrachy.. The government must find a way to feed, clothe, house and let develop its vast population while balancing the economic clout of its ruling elite and newly rising middle class against its impoverished and 2 centuries behind agrarian/rural poor.

This means agressively obtaining all the resources it can possibly gather by whatever means available, and if that is through conquest and absorption [ Tibet, Taiwan, etc ] p[roxy control [ North Korea, etc. ] or by buying everything in sight, then it will.

despite the concerns and misgivings such manoeuvers create in the Western block/Europe the developed nations, America and Canada and all, can't afford to pass up on China's potential customer base. They may be godless commies, but, by Gawd, they'll buy a hell of a lot of Slutney spears' tapes, J'lo cheap pants and consume a ton o' McD burgers washed down by Coke if we let 'em [ most of it made right in their own backyard at ' slave labour prices which make ' shareholder value ' look so good ]..so sell them our wheat, electronics, and whatever else [ coal, oil, wheat, minerals, water ffs!]..

And, if China can't get a deal with one or another country because of strategic concerns and security wo0rries, well it has a ready market it can subvert and exploit in those nations that the West has decided to shun because they are ' axis of evil' rogue states.

Robert Mugabe, that enlightened African leader of the collapsing African empire was recently wined and dined in China and given an ' honourary university degree' and lauded for his " brilliant contribution " to diplomacy and international relations...as a man of ' strong convictions, a man of great ahcievements, a man devoted to preserving world peace " [ try saying that with a straight face in anything other than chinese ] China paid ofr a $ 9 million dollar Saddam-like palace and filled it with goodies, he got military hardware, fighter aircraft, interest-free loans and new technology for his ' secret police', even T-shirts for his ' election team '. With the west shunning Zimbabwe, China exploited the vacuum and scooped up crucial resources and minerals.
Chijna donated $ 7 million to build a ' modest estate' for the leader of Namibia, $ 2 billion loan to Angola [ including an secluded and restricted enclave for its ruling elite complete with perimeter fencing electronically monitored to keep the ' riffraff' out.
It has invested $ 300 million in copper mines in Zambia. In all it has 31 agreements in place, signed 40 oil deals, offered ' debt relief' and dropped some $ 18 billion in 2003 to ' assist' emerging economies.

The sudan has been able to thumb its nose at Wastern sactions for its treatment of the the non-muslim minority simply because in exchange for allowing China to have its oil at reduced, Walmart prices, it got in return tanks, guns, planes and helicopters to ' secure' its borders in a bid to ' establish order'. $600 million oil and gas deal now gives Sudan the privilege of providing China with 10% of its oil needs.

In short China is in the process of growing one of the most powerful assyemetrical superpowers in the history of the world. Its already reshaping international order..Its all for [ because it has to be ] rapid growth, state-led development, technological modernization, state intervention economics and tight political control over the population [ and we're helping it just ask Google, Yahoo and the others ]
China's influence in the developing world is outstripping anything the west can muster. America is losing the ' war' because it has no plan of its own other than whack a mole [ Iraq, Afghanistan, possibly Iran ] when it has to. the days of it dominating world affiars is gone and all but disappeared under Dubya [ don't blame him, it was already slipping fast under wussie policies of Clinton ] Cina will be the ' major enemy' of the US by 2020.

and that is why bush had dinner with Mr. Hu in Washington, gave him the ol' 21 gun salute and broke rubber chicken with the boy..unless Washington [ and its hangers-on ] get some guts behind them and come up with something other than ' subvert from within ' by flooding China with Paris Hilton sex tapes. Bush and his successors better be getting good at hosting dinners for the ' new bosses'..cause the Head Office is moving ' offshore '..

and that's why there's no need to fear Japan building a bigger military, instead we should be encouraging it.. It will be the first line of defence in the fight to keep America from eating with chopsticks...

China

Rocketeer says "China is buying its way into influence using America's own plans.. Just look at how many ' corrupt ' and shunned regimes in the world China is financially backing to their benefit.."

I would believe this statement about china supporting regimes, if it were not for us supporting the taliban ourselves. In support of fighting the Red threat, we have supported regimes also. At times i people like you ignore how we supported the Taliban, and even Saddam at one time.

So dont be so ignorant. Lets not proliferate weapons unless we need to. Look at what Israel has done with the weapons they got from us. Besides angering the rest of the middle east, and without blaming anyone for the violence in the the Gaza, their weapons are often used for revenge and murder.

I say we give the Japanese more forks. Because if im not mistaken they eat their food with chopsticks too.

I say we make money with china...turn Japan into sweat shops, and we will all be happy.

Well this is an old post, but I can't help digging it up, cause Rocketeer, you seem rather scared of China!!! And your description on how fearsome we have become is amusing to me. As a gal born, raised and still in China now, I don't get the threat you are talking about us, like we are some big scary power...Peoples here just want to live a happy life, even if the government want to be super power, with people's mind fixed on everyday living, it is highly unlikely, according to an old Chinese saying :"Government is boat and peoples are water carrying it." We are water flowing peacefully.
I am in university, and we always have 3 weeks of military training for all freshmen here, but every thing in that training is like a huge bureacratic joke. We only march around, shoot rifle that are already loaded by professional soldiers only once and no one know which mark to aim at, we spend more of the time singing than training. I bet it's far from your real trainings, and we tried our best to sneak out and walk around. Highschool life is full of study, university life is easy and relaxed, but once we start working it will be busy for a living. I wonder what do you do now, rocketeer? Did you retire from military and now have nothing to do but posting? Just curious.I like most of posts around here and think you sound quite like a weathered Mil man with senses, but this post about China keep tingle me to laugh lol
I do not really like Japan, I used to when I was a little kid but now I grew up and met Japanese who never knew much about what happened. One of them gave me a copy of Japanese textbook with only 2 lines describing JP actions in China and southeast Asia, saying "There is no valid proof to what happened" and told me:"See? We do not hide history!" That sound real stupid. And I don't like the way JP men treat women there, I guess if they have a chance, they will still try to grab land.
Rocketeer, it also seem to me like you believe in countries need to be policed, *it needs to be involved in the actual ' policing' and protection of the region and the world through physical presence i.e. soldiers on the ground to earn street cred* did you ever realize there are various forms of life and even if we are developing, doesn't mean we need police and control from outside? It is sorta like, US, Japan etc as the rich guys, and we Chinese and other countries are middle class. We can live well without police. Indeed Taiwan, HK and Japan are rich nowadays, under western long term support, but in my opinion, they sorta lose their own identity, dignity and start follow the western world around, trying so hard to be "Just like the US". But they are not westerners, and that is pathetic to me. I rather keep my own identity and I'm rather thankful that I grew up in China, without outside control.This might be new view to you~~I have seen weird hollywood movies picturing China or Chinese peoples in US as really strange to me, wish you guys get to know more about the "reality".
BTW I like it here and this is my very first post cheering myself :P

I also agree with Soltrinox's point and maybe I can make it more understandable to you guys.
Japanese fought in China for over 8 years, in Nan Jing alone, they killed 350000 innocent civilians and over that number of soldiers by cruel ways like behead, use them as target for byonet practise, hold killing competition, etc(too bloody to list) and rape and torture.

Now suppose it were 911 happening in the above time range and scale, and number of innocent lives killed. You could not revenge, because afterwards some superpower took the weapons away from "the base", slightly reprimanded it, gave it money and let Bin Laden keep his rule. 50 years later, "the base" had grew rich like japan nowadays, bin laden lived to his full years and died while still on throne. "the base" would not admit that 911 happened, and they still worship Bin Laden in their shrines for war heroes. While you have never seen your grandfather because of Bin Laden, like Soltrinox, or you got a grandma, like mine, who recount her story of fleeing to your city as a child from the terrorists, and what the terrorists did to her old neighbors back home.

Now how would you feel if "the base" got away with every thing above and want their weapon back to build real military again?? If you were not alarmed, then go test your basic survival instinct.

each year, a memorial service is held for 911 and the name of every victim was read out aloud. Does anyone have the heart to say:"It is the past, they should stop reading that name, just forget and forgive and let's give Bin Laden or Saddam another chance by letting them rule like before, they might have a change of heart and develop power to help us, or we can give some power to their children......."

Fang:

Nicve of you to drop by and revive the thread..

First, let me say, I've been retired from ' active duty' for some time, but keep my ' hand in' as an advisor/consultant, writer/historian and general buttinski who mouths off with ' the way I see it ' and, surprisingly gets paid for it [ sometimes quite well LOL ]..

as to the 'threat of China '.. texting is a poor substitute for conversation and discussion/debate so some of what I've said may come across as more strident/reactionary than intended...

that being said..China - the nation, not the people - has a ' necessity'.. in order to move into a position of strength in the 21st century, if only to supply its population with greater economic prosperity, etc. etc..all the material elements that the West and Europe already has or is seeking to achieve - crass capitalistic materialism- but with a Communist veneer [ snicker ]..it needs a vast amount of ' natural resources/ raw materials. etc .etc.. oil, gas, ores, minerals.. whatever just to keep pace with the needs and demands of its population and the government needs to protect itself from its own people who will be royally pissed if they don't get what they see others getting; by placating the folks down on the farms and giving everyone the goods..To do this, given the sheer scale of their country and its people means affecting other nations both politically and militarily and economically.. Hence their moves on Taiwan,[ they need the expertise of the westernized Chinese ] their helping failing and dictatorial regimes who have resources they need [ Sudan, etc - taking a page from the US foreign relations book but far less subtlely - they don't have the time ] ...

the pace of their re-making of themselves, often at the expense of others [ Tibet?? ] and the environment [ Three Gorges, etc ]is what's scaring ' us '..

On the whole, I'm not worried about the SuperpowerChina as I expect that the Hardline Agressive Government Autocratic Expoiters of the Masses will be turfed out of office by the Democratic Revolution the ' little people ' will effect in a few years when the demand for luxury duplexes and Mercedes SUV's reaches its 'apogee '...Hhehehehehehe...

Hope this response isn't blocked by the ever vigilant minions of the Department of Truth working assiduously to protect your thought processes from being corrupted, from some basement complex in Beijing !!

China just started train service from Bejing and 4 other cities to Tibet.See short article below.
http://www.chinahighlights.com/news/travel-latest/first-trains-to-tibet.html
Naturally the article does not mention that the Tibetans are sh!tting bricks with this new openess.They are worried about losing even more of their right to self rule.
See: http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/1104AP_China_Tib...way.html?source=mypi
And the news that Okinawa cities are refusing to allow US Patriot batteries to protect them from Korean/Chinese long range missles goes over like a turd in a punch bowl.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: firstborn,

The sad thing is that at the same time as we're decrying the demands of China and what that might mean to the ' balance of power' we're falling over each other in selling them whatever they want because we can't see past the mega bucks flowing into our pockets.. So, while we scream about their treatment of Tibet, we're giving them the technology to get there easier by train [ Canada's Bombardier is a major developer of the special train cars needed and Nortel provided the technology for communication in remote areas to run the system ]..

We bitch at them for ' raping ' the environment to build mega dams and rip up natural wonders for concerte bunker cities but at the same time we're jumping up and down to flog them cement, steel, machinery atc. to do it..

We cry 'cause their destroying ' our' economies and jobs by cranking out cheap goods, but flock to Walmart and buy the DVD players, shirts and and shoes faster then the pimply-faced lads can stock the shelves..

Bet more than a few Canajans and USA'ers.. were waving miniature ' old glories ' and ' maple leaf's ' made in China this Canada Day and Independence Day...

But Rocketeer,that's the capitalist way.
Sell them whatever they need,right up to the moment they destroy us.
I am becoming way too cynical....or is it realistic?
Another article on the Okinawans refusing the Patriot battery.
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=1920848&C=airwar

Thanks for replying~~I can read it lol. My gov usu just block "sensitive news" on big medium like BBC or VOA or Newsweek etc. The whole VOA is not available. And the rest are viewable except the news contain anti china stuff itselves. that is frustrating, and I do want to see a more opener freer sociaty too. When I was in HK, I feel great cause the "air" feel more free there with their magazines insulting political leaders freely

There are ways to bypass internet, we used to have a software to read whatever we want, now that is blocked too, but besides that, our life did get better. I live in a big city here so it is nice. But I have been to countryside and the life there is just.....sad.
That's why I could not picture us as a superpower when so many are peaceful and many others are poor.

Environment is bad in here~~Gov place little actual control on factories to deal with their own trash, apart from our own folly constructions (Our newspaper like to criticize that too) we also allow foreign companies to come here to produce every thing. Do you know how much of your postcards, notebooks etc are printed in Shen Zhen? The coast around that city stink. Printing factories are high pollutive and from my experience in a couple of them, they just place high pollution stuff outside, spending sometime in those printing workshops make my nose, eyes and ears so sick. In China, the best employers are from Europe or US, second are local gov offices, third:local private business, the last: HK or Macau or Taiwan employers. It is weird that employers from the last category are all Chinese, but they'd picture us from mainland as poor and desperate and exploit us in most of factories they opened. While European and US employers respect human rights.

There are ways to make up for environment though, peoples realize it after their lives got affected by the environment. Now they are trying to plant forest in the desert area up north, and city plan include more green belt. I think the problem is 2 many stuff are centered around BJ. I'm scared their selfishness might sacrifice the rest of my country. Things are also being righted for the peasants to make their lives better. It will take time. And the educational part, when we were in high school, dating was forbidden all we could do was to study & test, all day long,from waking up to go to bed, with only a little break we can take in between this is life for the elite students who can get into good university, the rest either keep trying or get lost. But only about 10% can go to good universities.I wished I hadn't sacrificed my last 3 years of high school solely to study but had some grow up and fun too!

I think my country is becoming more "Free" maybe it just take time. As to a change of gov, I wonder if that would cause some social turmoil or invasion from outside *sweat* In a way our people choose communism and maybe it is needed. I'd still prefer to stand up on my own with more difficulty then being helped up~~ Just so I can keep my ability to stand.

Wish my post dont get blocked. A lot of forbidden stuff on it lol. Let's see...