Patoloco I won't get you started as a matter if you are the kind of Retired US Marine who will call or tolorate anyone calling your President a Nazi I don't even want to be in the same forum you make me want to puke END OF ****ING STORY...

I had hopes of this ' debate' actually going somewhere..the issue of the 2nd amendment and ' gun control', given the high death rate from weapons in America would have been quite lively, to say the least... sadly, Old owl ruined it by actually agreeing with and praising reppearso for making a 'sane comment ' amongst our howlings...

That kind of spoiled it for me, as anyone, who can accept reppearso's constant whining about his ' child abuse' at the hands of the psychotic drill sergeants in Basic training forcing him to become a compulsive McDonald's addict and turn his body into the Pilsbury Doughboy just to avoid serving his country, has little credibility in the Rocketeer's web niche...

what is it about this site, lately? We seem to have attracted a host of flying nutbars.. Admin better make sure the bug zapper is turned on or boost the power on the whacko filter...

can't wait to see what lands here next...

quote:

Originally posted by Rocketeer:
Yes, you should have, Old Owl..there you would have got the response you wanted in the first place, slavish agreement with your paranoia and belief that the vast governmental conspiracy has flooded the American drinking water with a a complacency virus..

because the vast majoprity of righteous Americans didn't rise up and impeach/overthrow Dubya and his co-conspirators, you think this government is corrupt and undermining the ideals that made the nation great..

sure, I'll buy that..
I'm sure that will sell when you ruin for office to overthorw and expose all of this in 2008

You're right. Of the 14 forums this poll is on this is the only place full of whineyass ninnies . I have sincere doubts there are any military people here, but more likely armchair wannabe warriors who watch mail call reruns all day drinking Bud from cans. We can do without this forums votes very well thanks. You have displayed your inability to stand up and be counted, I'm confident you'll have a nice complacent life an slaving away for the Rockefellers.

Gee.. sorry, Old Owl...

I guess this site is full of free thinking individuals who aren't prepared to accept your paranoia about the imminent collapse of democracy in America and the inate corruption of the Dubya Republicans..

sorry we didn't all slavishly push the ' civil disobedience' button on your poll so you could claim 100% anti-Bush results when you ' released this poll to the media ' and had it touted by Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh [ or would that have been John Stewart, Robert Colbert ? ] as being the authentic pulse of America..

Old Owl, crawl back into your rail car bunker in the south 40 and chow down on some 'survivor special ' beef jerky.. its going to be a long wait for the true America to wake up and overthrow the government..guess you don't believe Hillary when she says she's going to make things all better?

and PS: its a good thing Gunny hasn't seen this post.. You callin' him out on his military service is just asking for a huge helping of whoop ass on your head..as for me, I did my time- I got no shame, I can hold a beer with anyone on that score, I don't need your approval, especially if it means I got to push the ' scared sheep ' button on your " poll ".

Oldowel: You are a fool and acting the part. Also, you are not in the same league with most of the people on this site because we served our country and are not just talking about it like some lame excuse for a man, if you are indeed a man.

Geez o pete, where do we get these guy's? Is there a hotlink posted somewhere that is drawing these guys here?

Like most regulars in here we enjoy a good reasoned debate, and freedom of speech is taken for granted. Everyone has a right to thier own opinions, whatever they may be. Having said that, this doesn't mean I have to agree to them just because you are capable of formulating a thought and posted it. You want to brand people because they don't agree with you? You want to brand the entire forum based on the few responses you did get?

Old Owl, I'm not quite certain just what you hope to accomplish in here, but you should know that there are a good many folks in here that have successfully served thier country with distinction and honor. We served proudly regardless of who happened to be sitting in the Oval Office. I served under both Democrates and Republicans. It mattered little what party they were with simply becuase they were our Commander In Chief, and whose orders we swore an oath to follow. Now if you were to ask which party we prefer to run the country after having served under both, you would likely get each of our personal preferences voiced.

You are the one that needs to detail your history in order to gain the validity of your opinions. Ours is already in here via our various posts should anyone care to look. You want to know who I support? Do your research in here to find that answer.

By your invitation, I went to the links you provided, I looked around and found nothing that interested me. From what I read there, its all opinion based with a few facts thrown around to help justify a certain line of thought. This doesn't mean that there's any solid proof to back up anything posted in there. One can manipulate data to justify any action. This has worked successfully for democrates and republicans for centuries. Show us some original thought, not hashed over conspiracy theories.

By the way, have you fingered out who I'm voting for this next election yet?

Patoloco- since everyone has read the post above I will leave it you can do whatever feels right.I will apologize for atacking your loalty to your Country that I feel is not one of my privilages.

Rocketeer I don't give you the same you take for granted that when you can use one of your favorite words Dubya or Bush Nazis to refer to the President of the United States I will continue to take offense.

Sully..

Bush Nazi isn't my word.. that was coined[?] by the esteemed Deaf Messenger, a previous occupant of the nutbar chair, who claimed that it was these dark minions of President Bush [ not sure which one ] who implanted microchips in his brain and told him they were out to control the world through -well, I'm not sure.. he kind of rambled on at that point...

I was using the term to point out to Old Owl, who seems hell bent on proving that some impossible arbitrary decree from the President [ unnamed, of course, because he's being hypothetical ] needs to be voted on and thwarted in the immediate future, or the country prepared to go to revolt in any case, because he's sure that some President will demand the recall[ forcibly] of all legal guns in America or some such [ guess he doesn't have much faith in the powerful lobbying efforts of the NRA on this ]and that Congress, the Joint Chiefs, the Supreme Court, the State Governments and Joe and Jane Sixpack at the local Krispy Kreme will all docilely go along with that, so he's trying to mobilize the populace with this premptory vote business hoping to stir up moral indignation[ or worse ]..


I find the concept laughable [ that's just me, mind, but I have better faith in Americans than Old Owl seems to have in his government ] and thought I'd stick a burr under his saddle and see how long he'd stay on the bronc..

Sully.. While I think that Dubya isn't the brightest president the US has ever elected, I, by no means, consider him to be anything less than sincere and competent and intelligent enough to understand and take counsel from advisors and specialists before making any decision or taking action..

history will determine if those choices were right/wrong as we can't predict what the consequences may be, only propose possible outcomes and theories...

I continue to hold the highest respect for the Office of the President and find Old Owls' belief that anyone in that office would use it to overthrow America from within in such a dictatorial manner offensive and worth my ridicule..

we friends again?

quote:

Sully.. While I think that Dubya isn't the brightest president the US has ever elected, I, by no means, consider him to be anything less than sincere and competent and intelligent enough to understand and take counsel from advisors and specialists before making any decision or taking action..

Same-same. As a matter of fact, what I was referring, Sully (if you'd asked), is to the fact that I'm tired of the Hitler-Bush crap. While I'm not a fan of Bush, I think the comparison to Hitler (and the USA to Nazi Germany) is a huge insult to anyone who survived the concentration camps, WWII veterans who fought and died freeing the world from Hitler, and the six million Jews slaughtered in his name. I think it smears the entire "Greatest Generation" by even thinking that what they faced then is anything close to what people perceive is "the crisis" we face in George W Bush.

I really don't know what gave you the idea that I would tolerate this, actually. Yes, I am far from a "neo-con", but I'm not going to label Bush a Nazi.

Thanks for helping me out Gunny.I don't like a lot President Bush does or has to say but he is my President and I will stand by him until things change.

< sniff >..Sully... no hugs for me...

WAH!!

Thats ok rocketeer, Sully gets like this whenever the beertender serves him diet beer.

I say this in response to Sully's post where he said, in part: "but you should know that there are a good many folks in here that have successfully served their country with distinction and honor. We served proudly regardless of who happened to be sitting in the Oval Office. I served under both Democrats and Republicans. It mattered little what party they were with simply because they were our Commander In Chief, and whose orders we swore an oath to follow. Now if you were to ask which party we prefer to run the country after having served under both, you would likely get each of our personal preferences voiced."

Sully, what you say could not have been better written. Let me take this opportunity to thank you and all other readers of this forum who served our country as members of our armed forces.

It's these kind of words that remind me how great our country truly is.

quote:

Originally posted by HarryP:
Oldowel: You are a fool and acting the part. Also, you are not in the same league with most of the people on this site because we served our country and are not just talking about it like some lame excuse for a man, if you are indeed a man.

Harry, you make me laugh. But I suppose that it isn't your fault. The government has perfected through history their method of brainwashing troops into complete and total submission to where they will follow the leader off a cliff without asking questions. Admirable qualities... for a goat. But I guess that's the only way the system works. What saddens me so, and I really mean this sympathetically, is that when soldiers think for themselves, they sometimes end up throwing down their arms, as happened in Vietnam, and is beginning again now. When and if you ever realize that you're not fighting for America's freedom, but rather for the greed and power of the world elite class, you will feel the fool, and I'm sorry your country let that happen to you. And those brave men who died in battle paid the ultimate price with honor as far as I'm concerned, because in their minds, they knew no different, and fought and died with that ideology in their mind. Which makes them heroes in vein, none the less.

When you begin to learn things for instance how the Bush family is linked through history to things like the central bank making the money available to Hitler, and then financing both sides of WW11 at great profit, and every damn war since, you will be less likely to call others "fools" and look in the mirror. People always attach names to and attack what they don't understand and fear. PLEASE! Don't take my word for any of this. The world is at your fingertips with the internet. Stop polishing your medals for a week and do some research, and you will find the truth.

I will leave you with some quotes;

"To defend the New World Order, US soldiers will have to kill and die."

Arthur Schlesinger
Council on Foreign Relations

"Military men are just dumb stupid animals to be used as pawns in foreign policy."

Henry Kissinger
Council on Foreign Relations.

Now before you go getting all emotional, go find out what the New World Order is all about, and find out what the Council on Foreign Relations is all about, and I don't mean a definition on Wekipedia. Do the work.

Good luck, and God bless.

Huh. Didn't know there was a World War Eleven.

Ah, back to ignore you go.

Oh, No, Mr. Owl!

not the Bilderbergian Illuminati!

Not the World Jewish Conspiracy!

Not the Secret Cabal of the 5000!

You going to tell me that the " Dumb as Sh*t, Good ol' Boy image Dubya presents is all a crock and , in reality, he's a Machievellian presence who is controlling the world through the Skull and Bones elite from when he was ' enrolled ' in his alma mater?

Or, is it the Martians who are running things ever since they arrived here in 1947 [ Roswell!! Oh, Roswell, come here boy! ]

oh, why didn't I see this coming? [ those nasty World Order secret men in black must have tricked me ] I'm so glad Old Owl has appeared to show me the light!!

[ is that a siren I hear? Why are those men in white carrying big butterfly nets and jackets that do up in the back? ]

quote:

Originally posted by Rocketeer:
in the interest of debate let's be hypotehtical, indeed.


I can think of only one instance when a president ever sent federal troops into a situation to suppress local/state authority and that was during the passage of anti-segregation laws to protect black students attending white schools when the state government tried to use the National Guard/Police to block their entry..[if I recall my history correctly ]

In short, you proposal is beyond hypotehtical and verges on fantasy..but, still... interesting first post.

Over to you, I await your rebuttle.

Federal Troops? The troops are not federal. They ARE the National Guard under state control, that if necessary the President will federalize...overriding the authority of the State.

which is what was done in your example and has been done some eight or nine times, in Arkansas, Alabama, Mississippi and other places including Katrina.

Mind you New Orleans was disarmed before sending them in, under a zero access before chasing down the citezens and shipping them like cattle some never to be seen again.

Mayor Nagin must have had bad coffee.

quote:

Originally posted by Rocketeer:
blah, blah, blah..and a yada, tada, yada, repeatso..

more illiterate grumblings.. off duty boozed up soldiers wandering off base with loaded weapons.. like that will happen..more likely the local drug dealer will off you before the army ever gets to you..nutbar [ here's hoping ]..and ..as I outlined in my reply to Owl, what 'lawful order' ? would that be?

A so-called Predidential ' command ' to disarm the whole [ and here's the key word ] law abiding population of the United States would never be carried out unless,[ and that's a monumental ' if' predicated on a thousand failures and questioning by hundreds of government officals/legalists. etc. -see my previous posts above ] the Congress, the Supreme Court, the Joint Chiefs, the State Governors and everyone in authority[ right down to the elected dog catcher ] accepted his decree without once challenging his ' right' [ under presidential rules - show me where the President has that arbitrary authority ]..

this is a fantasy all right.. it is base paranoia by a gun lobbyist with a fear that his pet Colt 45 will be impotent when the demon Democrats take power..

it is not about that at all. Even people that once advocated for gun control are dead set against it.

secondly, after the second 9/11 there will martial law.

so it is not going to take all those "ifs" at all. another terrorist attacks and our government will turn the military on its people to crush dissent.

Dissent you ask? well we attacked one country after the first 9/11. Who do you think he will go after after the second 9/11? Is that also nutty or riduclous or offensive?

Will we nuke them instead of sending ground troops? All of this stuff has been on Fox news. Are they crazy too?

As a matter of fact you will probably be one of those citizens begging for the government to incarcerate all muslims and anyone that speaks out abuot martial law and protests will be an enemy combatant.

Do you see what the question is all about? very disturbingly probable scenarios given the past of what the future holds.

mircle:

are you seriously postulating that..let's say, a jihadist nutbar blows up a Thanksgiving Day balloon over Manhattan and the US will go ballistic with the inevitable outcome that Dubya suddenly morphs into Musharrraf? [ assuming that your scenario takes place before the next elections ]

or are you seriously suggesting that Hillary, Obama, or any other of the Republican/Democratic candidates currently salivating about redecorating the Oval Office would follow suit and declare themselves Supreme Leader when the next highrise goes down?

and that the American people, one and all, will march lock step into acceptance because a few of them get taken into ' protective custody' ?

Guess you don't have much faith in the Survivalist Militia boys and their vast arsenals of G.I. Joe weaponry hidden in boxcar bunkers in Minnisota, Wyoming and points west to come to the real America's rescue.....