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Registered: 17 July 2007
Posts: 22
AIM: Online Status For oneaglesfootball
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I am doing a high school debate on whether we should invade Iran I think we should what do you guys think
salute
Picture of thegunny
Registered: 24 January 2005
Posts: 3442
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There's many pro's and cons on this subject.

Why don't you first detail out why you would send our nations troops into harms way? Secondly, I wonder just how you feel the nations military should go about producing your desired results? What is acceptable and what is not?


SEMPER FI
The Gunny

PROUD TO BE AN INFIDEL

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don’t.

“The Meek shall inherit the earth….after I’m through with it.”

A pessimist's blood type is always b-negative
"Dozy Old Fat Git"
Registered: 16 February 2005
Posts: 1472
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cyclone [ as in mini-Typhoon? ] trying to stir the pot, here?

maybe you should think first about not ' should' but ' could '..

America can't afford to invade anywhere else both in terms of money and manpower, so, in order to invade Iran, they would first have to ' resolve' Iraq and Afghanistan.. how much is the cost of ' liberating' Iraq? and how reluctant is Congress to keep issuing credit notes to cover the cost?

Iran will have to be handled by ' proxy'.., probably Israel slipping another surepticious raid to knock out Nuke capable constructions and such...

Nope, America can't and won't, and, you can bet that once Bush leaves the Oval Office, Hillary won't be too willing to up the war ante any..

lost the debate before you've started kid..unless you're talking hypothetically, given ideal circumstances, and not a real world scenario..


There I was , at the head of the old 68th...
"Curmudgeon"
Picture of HarryP
Location: Washtenaw County, Michigan
Registered: 21 January 2005
Posts: 1928
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We have yet to exhaust our diplomatic resources in this matter. Talking, generally, does not cost lives and can sometimes settle the issue.


"It is fatal to enter any war without the will to win it"
DOUGLAS MacARTHUR, 1952
Registered: 03 October 2007
Posts: 1110
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Rocketrear - get a grip.

Nobody is going to invade Iran or China or N.Korea for that matter.
"Dozy Old Fat Git"
Registered: 16 February 2005
Posts: 1472
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Typhoon..loosen your necktie.. I said America wasn't going to invade Iran..that was the whole point..ain't going to happen..

After the FUBAR in Iraq and the stumbling around in the dark trying to find Bin Ladin in Afghanistan, the last thing on Dubya's or anyone's mind is starting another ' liberation/chastisement' of a Middle East country [ or elsewhere for that matter ]..


There I was , at the head of the old 68th...
Picture of SULLY1
Location: South Western Colorado
Registered: 24 November 2005
Posts: 1278
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Rocket Dubya stumbling around in the dark seems to me the great Northerns have not found Bin Laden maybe they are harboring him can't never tell your last big Moose was good old Frenchie's relative.Who is still under investigation as part of oil for food program.Heck you might even have to take sides I noticed Iran expelled the Canadian Ambassador today.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SULLY1,
Picture of Weatherman1956
Location: Where America's day begins.
Registered: 08 March 2005
Posts: 1008
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quote:
Iran expelled the Canadian Ambassador


The Persians are P.O.'d still from our hero Ken Taylor's helping that great Texan and American H. Ross Perot get our boys outta dodge...err ahh 'Terhan' back when Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was a roudy schoolboy.

And that nukie thang both the poor canuk news gal who fell ill and died (after being Raped and Tortured...we're not talking waterboarding here) AND that 'BOMB' development project...
I mean peaceful civilian alternative energy
in one of the most oil rich nations.

Those guys have got a nerve...they better watch out...they better not pout...they better not shout...cause you know who's coming to terhan.

The president submitted his annual budget -- $2.5 trillion. Don't kid yourself with this George W. Bush. This guy is sneaky, this guy is cunning, this guy is shrewd. He budgeted the upcoming invasion into Iran under office supplies...
Registered: 03 October 2007
Posts: 1110
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I just can't figure out why we would even consider invading Iran. First off the libs would freakout and write more pathetic books as well as movie sagas suggesting America Is like Germany in WW2 etc,. The indirect approach can serve up more damage than any massive attack. Let them watch our network news or listen to flabby Harry Ried for the next year or so. Let them think about 50 hypotheticals every 2 months. As for Bin Lauden? I actually think he is dead, but one thing is for sure : Islamic terrorist will not stop attacking us when Bush leaves. Oh you can suggest it all day if you want, but their goal has nothing to do with Bush.
Registered: 17 July 2007
Posts: 22
AIM: Online Status For oneaglesfootball
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ok but why not we have troops on both sides we are in prefect position to strike and take out there small nuclear weapons quickly. you have to think they can cut off all of middle Easter oil to places like Japan and the us I am not saying I want to I just want your opinion
tank salute
Picture of SULLY1
Location: South Western Colorado
Registered: 24 November 2005
Posts: 1278
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I think anything that happens in this world in the next hundred years will have a blame Bush factor added to it political correct is the answer or ACLU or Geneva Accord which not one Europen follows espically the terrioust.
Picture of Weatherman1956
Location: Where America's day begins.
Registered: 08 March 2005
Posts: 1008
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It's like you said...we've got 'em contained
(Militarily) Israel won't let a WMD attack occur (again). Hamas is the one who needs to be
stooge-slapped (and they ain't no PLO)

That NYTs op-ed columnist Maureen Dowd published an artical on the 5th taking another slap at Dubbya and the spooks over at his old man's agency and 'Iran'

quote:
WASHINGTON

Maureen Dowd

At the White House news conference yesterday, The Chicago Tribune’s Mark Silva gingerly snuck up on a state-of-mind question.

“I can’t help but read your body language this morning, Mr. President,” he said. “You seem somehow dispirited, somewhat dispirited.”

W. did look like a kid who’d just had his toys taken away. But he acted humorously exasperated, as he always does when the talk turns introspective.

“This is like, all of a sudden, it’s like Psychology 101, you know?” he said, as reporters laughed.

The reporters pressed on about whether the president was troubled about a possible “credibility gap” with the American people, given that the facts had failed him on Iraq and Iran and that Harry Reid had charged that “the president is not leveling with the American people” on war spending.

Even though Norman Podhoretz is conjuring up a “Seven Days in December” spy thriller scenario in which the intelligence agencies colluded to sabotage the president and prevent him from the noble mission of air strikes on Iran, W. insisted he felt “pretty good about life.”

He said that the breathtaking and embarrassing reversal in the National Intelligence Estimate about Iran’s nuclear capability — from “high confidence” in 2005 that the mullahs were developing a nuke to “high confidence” that they stopped the program in 2003 — somehow made it clear that he was right.

If W. can shape the intelligence to match his faith-based beliefs, as with Iraq, then he will believe the intelligence — no matter how incredible it is.

If he can’t shape it to match his beliefs, as with Iran, then he will disregard the intelligence — no matter how credible it is.

Even though Sy Hersh claims that the top echelon of the White House has long known of the conclusion that Iran had stopped its nuke program, and that Dick Cheney “has kept his foot on the neck of that report,” the president says he was briefed on it only last week. Others conspiratorially speculate that the president had to have green-lighted the report to take the air out of the hawks’ Iran push.

Just because the facts on which he based his white-hot rhetoric about Iran possibly sparking World War III have been debunked, W. said with his usual twisted logic, why should his policy change?

Indeed, John Bolton, who must have been paying attention in his Psych 101 class, argued to Wolf Blitzer that the intelligence analysts “got Iraq wrong and they’re overcompensating by understating the potential threat from Iran.”

George Tenet helped hawks like Mr. Cheney and Mr. Bolton overstate the case on Iraq W.M.D. Then, when things went wrong, W., Cheney and Condi made Mr. Tenet the fall guy.

After getting Iraq wrong and Iran wrong in 2005 and almost every other big thing wrong since the nation began spending billions every year on intelligence, the burned spooks may not have wanted to play the patsy again while W., Cheney and the neocons beat the drums for an Iran invasion.

Now the apple-polishing George Tenet is gone. The man who oversaw the new estimate is Tom Fingar, a former State Department intelligence officer who was smart and brave enough to object to the cooked-up intelligence on Iraqi W.M.D.

“The way they used to do business was to write estimates in a way that couched things so they said, ‘We may not always be right, but we’re never wrong,’ ” said Tim Weiner, the reporter for The Times who wrote the award-winning history of the C.I.A., “Legacy of Ashes.” “This is a slam-dunk reversal, admitting error. Now, when they play poker, they show their hands to each other, so they don’t get another Curveball.”

The president, who has shut out reality for seven years, justified continuing in his world of ideological illusion by saying that he would not be “blinded” to the realities of the world. You can’t get more Orwellian than that.

“And so,” W. concluded triumphantly, and nonsensically, “kind of Psychology 101 ain’t working.”

W. loves to act as though psychology is voodoo even though his whole misbegotten foreign policy has been conducted from his gut, by checking the body language of his inner circle and looking into the hearts and souls of dictatorial leaders.

If I were looking at the latest fiasco from a Psych 101 point of view, I’d say it was another daddy issue for W.

Poppy Bush, who was once C.I.A. director, loved the agency and liked to sign notes: “Head Spook.” The C.I.A. headquarters bear his name.

W., by contrast, has voiced contempt for the intelligence community. In 2004, he dismissed a pessimistic National Intelligence Estimate that didn’t match his sunny vision of the Iraq occupation, saying that the analysts were “just guessing as to what the conditions might be like.”

When W.’s history is written, he will be seen as the rebellious teenager crashing the family station wagon into his father’s three most cherished spots — diplomacy, intelligence and the Gulf.


I don't always enjoy reading her thoughts as much as I think she can read mine when I look at her pix.

Wink



http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/05/opinion/05dowd.html?e...e09cf16a4&ei=5087%0A


Hafa Adai!
Picture of patoloco
Location: Arizona
Registered: 08 May 2005
Posts: 1794
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quote:
It's like you said...we've got 'em contained


That's what I thought about Iraq.....
Registered: 17 July 2007
Posts: 22
AIM: Online Status For oneaglesfootball
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quote:
Originally posted by patoloco:
quote:
It's like you said...we've got 'em contained


That's what I thought about Iraq.....


that is wat everyone thought about iraq
tank
Picture of SGT Navarro
Registered: 28 December 2007
Posts: 30
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Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was waiting for the perfect time to do what he's doing. Keep your eye on the ball. It's not just Iran we have to watch. He is making global visits to rally some troops. He mended ties Egypt who dropped us like a hot rock. He's got Hugo Chavez in his back pocket. they are also going into the oil/nuke trade together. He no doubt can count on castro. He's out there like a Jehova's witness knocking on anyone's doors that will listen. They are also located in an area where they can stop us oil supplies from getting through. This guy can make North Korea look like a cartoon character. as mentioned before we would have to pull from the two current war fronts we're fighting on. Alqueda is rebuilding in Afganistan and Iraq living in a democracy is no where in site. As for bin laden you guys are nuts if you think the US don't know where he's at. I strongly believe he's alive and well and worth more alive for intel than dead with the repercussions that comes with killing him. As an intelligence sniper said "I had him (Bin Laden) in my scope. 11cents could have prevented 911 from happening. They ordered me not to take the shot". I would say the US in what's called a "Pickle". I've been in Desert Storm and Iraqi freedom. As a Vet I can tell you I am not looking forward to stretching our resources to the point where there are no reinforcements. As an American Soldier I'm am sworn to fight and defend America's battles and that's what I'll do.
Picture of thegunny
Registered: 24 January 2005
Posts: 3442
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They are gonna have to actively do something that warrents going in and taking them out. Playing chicken with our warships and capturing a few troops ain't gonna be enough to rate a war and they know it. They watched and learned from Saddam's actions prior to the US doing anything about him. They also know our strategy when it comes to making war in that region, they after all had a front row seat on the last two wars.


SEMPER FI
The Gunny

PROUD TO BE AN INFIDEL

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don’t.

“The Meek shall inherit the earth….after I’m through with it.”

A pessimist's blood type is always b-negative
Picture of SGT Navarro
Registered: 28 December 2007
Posts: 30
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unfortunatly Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is confusing our concern that he's working on nukes with defending our troops. While I think that Dubya may sit on the nuke issue, I'm not sure how he would react if the Iranians ever dropped an explosive device on our ships. I like Bush cause he's quick on the trigger in defending America. I just think he spends way too much money. Does he think the numerical system begins with 1 billion. Anyway back to the subject. I say lets squeeze the UN to do thier job and stop Iran. It's not the US's job to police the world it's thiers. So if they stop the coruption in there we may get things done.
Picture of Fox Mulder
Registered: 23 April 2007
Posts: 182
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No

The reasons, we could not handle another war. The war along with the tax cuts is making the Dollar obsolete compared to the Sterling or Euro. Fewer and fewer kids are signing up to join the military. The only way to keep the war going is to have a draft.

Bush is good at running businesses into the ground (2 oil companies in Texas, Texas Rangers and now the US national and foreign debt).


Fair Winds and Following Seas
Registered: 03 October 2007
Posts: 1110
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Why bring war to a warmonger? Iran is just that. They are also flanked on 2 fronts by America.
Registered: 19 February 2006
Posts: 1286
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Quoting SGT Navarro:

"I'm am sworn to fight and defend America's battles"

wow, that is not what you are sworn to do, you are sworn to fight and defend the constitution, and this war we are in now is not in defense of OUR constiution, maybe the initial invasion and bomb the hell out of them and go home but not this occupation. Why do we even have the oath anymore, I guess it makes people feel good.
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