yep it would melt down and suck really bad for them but at least we are not getting nuked.

quote:

Originally posted by rppearso:
yep it would melt down and suck really bad for them but at least we are not getting nuked.

So in other words, this is okay with you, to kill thousands if not millions, as long as you are alive.... If you truly believe this, we have nothing to discuss in this matter... I like debating, but to debate about killing millions, when there are other ways to handle it, well its kinda like the guy saying, just turn that country into a glass parking lot... what have we accomplished...

what did we accomplish in Japan in WW2?

quote:

Originally posted by rppearso:
what did we accomplish in Japan in WW2?

Wow, with this one comment, you seem confused on how you really feel. What we accomplished in Japan, has nothing to do with how I feel about stopping the production of Nuclear weapons today, while in the same turn, trying not to be a sadistic, no caring bastard.

The two subjects do not mix!!!

What ' we ' do about Iran has less to do about how its accomplished but how it will ' play ' to the punters and media ' analysts ' to agonize over...[ discounting world opinion as no one is likely to try and stop it from happening militarily ]..

The reasons for going in to Afghanistan were clear cut and dried.. Thats' where Al Quaeda were and they needed to be stopped.. the collapse of the Taliban was a bonus as a] they supported the terrorists and b] they were Nazi's taken to the extreme [ if that was possible ].. Not even the rabid right could accept the total suppression, repression, oppresssion that was going on...

Iraq was a bit dodgier and the screw up over WMD and other political incompetencies put the matter in a poor light, but, again, Saddam, while no where near as ' bad' as the Taliban was a pretty corrupt puke with delusions of exporting that to neighbouring nations if not elsewhere.. I have no doubt that he would have given safe haven to the insurrectionists/west haters if he thought it would get him any benefit..so, yeah.. he needed to go, just that the ' justification for actions taken ' was a bit dodgy..

As to Iran..the Theocracy that is running the place right now has swung back into the opp-Re-Suppression mode and is gearing up for a slap down.. The ' good thing ' is that the people of Iran, having come through the Ayatollah sh*t after the fall of the Shah and having tasted some ' liberties ' under the more liberal secular presidency are not about to let the new boss get away with stuffing them back under the burkah and there is consioderable unrest and less support for the belligerant stance taken by the politicians.. Does that mean they would support a popular uprising or welcome ' invader/liberators?'..not necessarily..

It may be best to continue the outside pressure from Nuclear regulators, the UN and elsewhere [ slower, not as much fun, but working ] at this point than to start a full scale incursion .. at the least it will give certain powers the time to build up other resources and swing public sentiment to the concept of going into another country to bring them ' free and democratic ' liberation...

the down side is, of course, that they will be free to elect their own leadership and ,as we have seen in Palestine and Iraq, the west don't always get what it wants when that happens and the ' wrong ' parties get into power..
Then what .. keep making them vote until they get it ' right'? or say to hell with it and make them a colony/protectorate and run them like the US virgin Islands or Puerto Rico etc.?

Sorry to say this and many may disagree with me, but we cannot depend on the UN and most of the Europeans or Russia to put pressure on Iran to get them to stop their desire to attain nukes.

Iran has to be stopped, plain and simple, which will mean that we, the US, will eventually have to be the one to do it or Israel.

The nuke site can be bombed without the fallout, if done right, but that may lead intosome sort of ground war anyway.

We, the US, has to be prepared to go into Iran and deal with this situation and tactically, we are prepared to do so.

We cannot let Iran gain a nuke!

Goldie.. you look like you might be on the right track.. Seems Russia and China sandbagged efforts at the UN to slap Iran's wrist by voting against the latest bit..not unexpected..but a kick in the shins nevertheless..

I guess im confussed then, and you can be the one to go in on the ground and get killed. Thats why the bomb was dropped to spare tens of thousands of americans lives, but I guess thats a bunch of outlandish nonsense that is not even closly related.

Goldenwings:

I am only looking for answers to questions that need asking. The government of Iran is a theocracy and we all know how one can manipulate the masses by the use of religious interpretation. The people might just be happy with a better government but probably not through an invasion. It just seems a good idea to have a plan for getting out within a reasonable time.

It might have been better to have invaded Iran first but our intelligence sources were bad and enough has been said about that. According to most sources, Iran is ten years away from the bomb so immediate action is not necessary but sooner than later is more desirable.

To me, having the troops in the area is the best form of pressure but you know as well as I do that we will start pulling them out for the American elections, though, probably small numbers. It just seems that a more stable Iraq would help the situation.

Repearso: Think.

I am not saying your wrong harryp, im just saying when did it become our responsibility to choose a sovern nations direction into the future. Its our responsibility to look out for US interests and to defend the US, not try to force other people into a way of life they dont want. If the people that are there now like the american way of life there are processes to comming to america, if not they can stay there. I think people try to rationalize and complicate things way to much, a spade is a spade.

RP--Please do yourself a real favor and research Iran and their situation both from a religious side and from a terrorism side and see what you can come up with. You just might understand that there are times when one has to do what is right, even if that means things will get messy for awhile.

We cannot let Iran gain a nuke weapon and that's the real world.

quote:

Originally posted by rppearso:
I guess im confussed then, and you can be the one to go in on the ground and get killed. Thats why the bomb was dropped to spare tens of thousands of americans lives, but I guess thats a bunch of outlandish nonsense that is not even closly related.

RP, try not to get emotional over this now, but you are the one who has already proven that you cannot handle the stress, nor would be the one to go in. I on the other hand, would give my life to go in and do what is right, in which it is not to get that country to do what America wants it to do, and it would be for the future protection of America and her security. Nuking Iran, would not solve our problems, but make them tenfold worse... (my opinion)....

I dont think we should nuke anybody I just think we should bomb there nuclear facilities, if they melt down oh well, how many do you think will die if we invade (probably more than if a reactor just melted down). Its not just about doing whats right its what is the smartest way to get the right thing done. Thats just my opinion, the military will do its own thing. What this nation does now will determine if we are still around later on down the road.

quote:

Originally posted by rppearso:
I dont think we should nuke anybody I just think we should bomb there nuclear facilities, if they melt down oh well, how many do you think will die if we invade (probably more than if a reactor just melted down). Its not just about doing whats right its what is the smartest way to get the right thing done. Thats just my opinion, the military will do its own thing. What this nation does now will determine if we are still around later on down the road.

What the freak are you talking about. If we bomb it and it melts, we are still going in, and we could be causing more of a hazard for our own troops. No matter how you slice it, troops will be on the ground there eventually, unless they cow to what we are telling them...

Wake the hell up people, Terrorism does not itself go away, it must be killed off, because America is a direct threat to their way of life..... Freedom frightens these people, who have been under a controled regime for so long....

.....and the looks of it, the only way to preserve our Freedom and way of life, is to go out and fight it on some other smucks turf...

RP, that will be those of us willing to fight for what we believe in, so just stay safe where you are at, and leave it to our Military..... Because if someone doesn't go out and fight the fight, game the game, then thousands will die here in America...

ARE YOU WILLING TO RISK THAT!!!!?

I am not.....

I am not sure the government of Iran meets the criteria necessary to be called terrorists but they are a rogue nation in need of a good revolution. It is also evident that they support terrorists and should be held accountable for their actions.

From what I understand, most Iranians do not care for their government and would like to change it but do not wish to be invaded in order to accomplish that goal. They may be disappointed if they think the world and more specifically the United States is going to wait.

The option of bombing their nuclear facilities and causing massive deaths by radiation would be a crime against humanity. If it were possible to eliminate the sites without killing thousands of people than it is a viable option but might only cause a delay in the program. It might be better to help change the government through support of revolutionaries or military force if necessary.

It is a problem that is not going to go away and should be a top priority for our government. It has to be resolved in the next few years and not handed to the next administration without some progress in either the diplomatic arena or the military one.

I agree with the fact we need to stop Iran from gaining nuclear weapon capability. Sure its unfair that we have a boatload of nukes, and we keep everyone else from getting them, but thats how it goes when you are the big fish in the pond.

rrpearso: It is our responsibility to guide the world. History says so. At one time or another, one Nation or Empire was responsible for the majority of the world. The British Empire was so vast, the sun never set on it. The Roman Empire stretched through almost all of Europe, the Axis was responsible for all of Western Europe and North Africa, and the majority of the Pacific. They all had to guide Nations they had conquered, or colonized, to an ultimate end that they saw fit, and in the light of the common good. We are the world's police force, because we are the only ones with the capability to do it. You think China or Israel, or any other Nation in the world can affect that kind of change?! They can't. Thats why we are the most powerful Nation, economically, militarily, and politically. We can affect change and turn the world into a Free World, even if it means getting our hands dirty.
With great power, comes great responsibility.

I'm not sure it makes sense to go into Iran at all, here’s why:

A) I've met a few Persians in my day, and they seem to have a lot more going for them as a nation than Iraq, Afghanistan, even Saudi -- one little statistic is that they have close to 80% literacy compared to Iraq's 40%, or Afghanistan's 36%, they even educate their women!!! --- unlike most Americans they probably speak multiple languages including English. Like it or not we shipped them weapons and military intelligence during the cold war that means, they’ve got some Sun Tzu know ‘your enemy stuff on us.’ Plus, it's relatively open (look at the area) and intelligence probably flows out of that place like water.

B) Frankly, on the scientific front what other source of power do we want these guys to use? Hydro? Wind? I know we all love oil -- but last I checked it's a limited resource. A Nuclear age usually brings about national prosperity...right? Last I checked the Nuclear Nations don’t like to share their secrets and get really pissy on those who mess with their nuclear capabilities. Finally, not to be a jerk but wouldn't one of these little desert states be a great place to store our nuclear waste? Let's make a deal!!!

I think that we have stated that the people in Iran are not the problem. As for nuclear war capability -- do you really want to share it with a government that is not responsible to the people?

And as for dumping waste -- choose a side of the argument and stick to it.