And it's mostly that the alternative to fat troops is not enough troops, which seems to me to be worse.

We have more than enough troops. Or are you implying that the Reserves shouldn't have been activated?

Fat troops are not an alternative just bigger targets.

1. A country with "more than enough troops" doesn't send recruiters oversea to fight simply to have enough troops.
2. The reserves, fine, but the national guard fighting in a country over a thousand miles away, that strikes me as wrong.

hmmm, you appear to be under a misconception concerning recruiters. The recruiting job is what is called a collateral duty, or an assignment for a set period of time. After which they are reassigned back to primary MOS. So yeah, they can get reassigned to go and help with the war on terror.

As for the National Guard? So they aren't a military force? They have no business being deployed? Don't like it, then tell the one that made that decison...your Governor. The National Guard has a long and distingushed history, it would be foolish to not capitalize on thier capabilities.

In case you didn't know, but here is a little history bbehind the National Guard:

The National Guard, the oldest component of the Armed Forces of the United States and one of the nation's longest-enduring institutions, celebrated its 370th birthday on December 13, 2006. The National Guard traces its history back to the earliest English colonies in North America. Responsible for their own defense, the colonists drew on English military tradition and organized their able-bodied male citizens into militias.

The colonial militias protected their fellow citizens from Indian attack, foreign invaders, and later helped to win the Revolutionary War. Following independence, the authors of the Constitution empowered Congress to "provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the militia." However, recognizing the militia's state role, the Founding Fathers reserved the appointment of officers and training of the militia to the states. Today's National Guard still remains a dual state-Federal force.

Throughout the 19th century the size of the Regular Army was small, and the militia provided the bulk of the troops during the Mexican War, the early months of the Civil War, and the Spanish-American War. In 1903, important national defense legislation increased the role of the National Guard (as the militia was now called) as a Reserve force for the U.S. Army. In World War I, which the U.S. entered in 1917, the National Guard made up 40% of the U.S. combat divisions in France; in World War II, National Guard units were among the first to deploy overseas and the first to fight.

I am the Guard

Civilian in Peace, Soldier in War...of security and honor for three centuries I have been the custodian...

I am the Guard!

At Concord's bridge, I fired the fateful shot heard 'round the world. I bled on Bunker Hill. My footprints marked the snows at Valley Forge. With Washington on the heights of Yorktown, I saw the sword surrendered...

I am the Guard.

These things I know - I was there! I saw both sides of the War Between the States - I was there! The hill at San Juan felt the fury of my charge; the far plains and mountains of the Philippines echoed to my shout. In France the dark forests of the Argonne blazed with my barrage; Chateau-Thierry crumbled to my cannonade.

I am the Guard.

I bowed briefly on the grim road at Bataan. Through the jungles and on the beaches I fought the enemy...beat, battered, and broke him. I scrambled over Normandy's beaches - I was there! I flew MiG Alley to the Yalu -

I am the Guard!

I fought in the skies above Vietnam - I was there! In the skies and on the ground, I made the Arabian desert feel the fury of the storm.

I am the Guard!

Civilian in peace, soldier in war...the stricken have known the comfort of my skill. I have faced forward to the tornado, the typhoon, and the horror of the hurricane and the flood. I saw the tall towers fall - I was there!

I am the Guard.

For three centuries the custodian of security and honor, now and forever...

I am the Guard.


So, we are supposed to allow these resources to just sit back home while the rest of us are out there fighting?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: thegunny,

yep and inbetween WW2 and the war on terror the guard has rarely been deployed overseas. That sets a precidence for thoes joining the guard and when all of a sudden you deploy people in the guard who were not counting on being deployed to a war of convience it is a disgrace, this is not WW3 despite all the hoo haa and the guard has no buisness deploying overseas unless all other options have been extingusihed. This nation has the most destructive weapons in the world that are rarely used all of thoes options must be exhausted before national guard are deployed and the use of the draft must be exhausted before we send our last line of defense. Our national guard units are so broken down that if anything were to happen (and I mean really happen, not just some bums in the middle east with AK-47s) we would be ill equip. Oh well, not my decision, but I will definatly not support the foolishness.

Once again the troll dung smell is in the air!

quote:

yep and inbetween WW2 and the war on terror the guard has rarely been deployed overseas. That sets a precidence for thoes joining the guard and when all of a sudden you deploy people in the guard who were not counting on being deployed to a war of convience it is a disgrace, this is not WW3 despite all the hoo haa and the guard has no buisness deploying overseas unless all other options have been extingusihed. This nation has the most destructive weapons in the world that are rarely used all of thoes options must be exhausted before national guard are deployed and the use of the draft must be exhausted before we send our last line of defense. Our national guard units are so broken down that if anything were to happen (and I mean really happen, not just some bums in the middle east with AK-47s) we would be ill equip. Oh well, not my decision, but I will definatly not support the foolishness.

How about some cheese with that whine?

how about a real rebuke.

How about buying a dictionary?

Im on here for entertainment not to write my PHD thesis so I dont care how I spell, now you are the one thread jacking. Why are you here?

It is your word usage round one. Any attempt at trying to be understood requires knowledge of the language used.

I am the Guard

Civilian in Peace, Soldier in War...of security and honor for three centuries I have been the custodian...

I am the Guard!

At Concord's bridge, I fired the fateful shot heard 'round the world. I bled on Bunker Hill. My footprints marked the snows at Valley Forge. With Washington on the heights of Yorktown, I saw the sword surrendered...

I am the Guard.

These things I know - I was there! I saw both sides of the War Between the States - I was there! The hill at San Juan felt the fury of my charge; the far plains and mountains of the Philippines echoed to my shout. In France the dark forests of the Argonne blazed with my barrage; Chateau-Thierry crumbled to my cannonade.

I am the Guard.

I bowed briefly on the grim road at Bataan. Through the jungles and on the beaches I fought the enemy...beat, battered, and broke him. I scrambled over Normandy's beaches - I was there! I flew MiG Alley to the Yalu -

I am the Guard!

I fought in the skies above Vietnam - I was there! In the skies and on the ground, I made the Arabian desert feel the fury of the storm.

I am the Guard!

Civilian in peace, soldier in war...the stricken have known the comfort of my skill. I have faced forward to the tornado, the typhoon, and the horror of the hurricane and the flood. I saw the tall towers fall - I was there



How can you sit there and DENY the National Guards own history? Your references to WWI and WWII, what about Korea, Vietnam, GWI and now the GWOT? National Guardsmen and women are fullfilling thier roles daily in keeping with the fine traditions and history of the National Guard. Your arguements don't hold water at all.

The vietnam conflict was fought primarily with draftees and regular military, there may have been some small percentage of national guard deployed (most likely on a voulentary basis). The MASS deployments of the national guard to the second iraq conflict (not sure that congress actually declaired war) has never been seen since WW2 and even during WW2 I would question if the deployment lengths were as great as they are today. People are disenfrancized with the guard and for good reason, they are being used as draftees so politicians can protect there political carrer by not having to institue a draft which would cause massive public outcry (and if you think the democratic controled congress is bad just imagin if the senate were 75-80% democrate with hilery clinton as president). The national guard is ment to be a state defense force to be called on by the governor of that state and only called upon by the federal government in extreme national WAR'S not conflicts not even wars of convience. Deployment of the national guard to "play in the sand box" is a gross mismanagment of this nations resources and when you tap the guard you put the burden directly on that state as well. This conflict does not even come close to measuring up to WW2 which was the last major call up of national gaurd and thats a fact.

Continuing thread jack--

Here's some interesting numbers:

Portion of U.S. population that fought in WWII: 12%
Portion of U.S. population that fought in Vietnam War: 2%
Portion of U.S. population fighting in OEF/OIF: 0.5%

Got these off a blog (who claimed to get them from the VA), so not sure how accurate they are, but kinda makes it very hard to believe the National Guard is deployed more now than in WWII. The National Guard website says that 50,000 have been mobilized both at home and abroad for the entire GWOT. Over 75,000 were mobilized for the Gulf War.....that was what 1991?

Why did I hit "show post"? Reloading page.

I agree that WW2 did see national guard deployments, my point is there has been nothing significant regarding national gaurd deployment since WW2 until now. Im not looking at it from a % of total population im looking at from % of national guard deployed now compared to anyother time since WW2 (which was around 60 yrs ago). I think thats a major problem and so do alot of other people in the US(sorry most people in the US are not lock step with the opinions of the core members on this forum) thats why you see national gaurd recruitment and retention suffer the most. Most people who join the regular military either dont mind or want to be deployed but people join the national gaurd for much different reasons and when a 60 yr presidence is broken for a police action people feel violated and it does not matter that you dont care or think there "pussys" there still going to leave and it is creating major problems. The military needs to wake up to these problems.

rppearso. perhaps its time you woke up? What do you think it will take? a nuke going off before you recognize the danger this nation is facing?

That stench just won't go away!

if anyone knows where fat-ass lives, I'll pay them to shoot him.

So if its such a real threat when are we going to bring down the hammer. The US has not brought down the hammer since WW2 in japan and that was 60 yrs ago, alot of generations have forgotten and they need a reminder (not to say we should use nukes (although thats what I would do) but there are plenty of other hammers we can bring down that would end terrorism in a few months). We dont need troops deployed for 24 months or national guard tapped out so bad that they cant respond to local disasters, we need to maintain our national assets and budget while squelching the saber ratteling at the same time. The iraqi people are not worth the time to put military familys on the rocks with 24 month deployments. They are worth about as much time as it takes to fly over and drop MOAB's and be back home in time to have a late dinner anything more than that and you have degraded your own quality of life to that of theres. If we were facing a real danger we would pull out all the stops but were not thats why this is a war of convience. Either that or the US has become so brainwashed by the rest of the world regarding collateral damage that this "real threat" will eventually bring this nation out of existance due to our brainwashed unwillingness to bring down the hammer. Either way the private with an M-16 in the desert is serving no usefull purpuse other than to miss out on the final gravy days of the united states before we are erroded away by political correctness and paranoia of collateral damage.

Why dont you come and shoot me yourself Aufklarer.

quote:

Why dont you come and shoot me yourself Aufklarer.

Be careful what ya ask for