RIML...I tend to cringe when military/police similarities come up. During your time on the force, did you have any problems with ex-Grunts trying to work for the police department?

Yogi

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Originally posted by Gary Stanley:
Second: I damn sure never talked about police situations that I never participated in. Not in my job description as this isn't in yours.

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Gary - That's the other place where folks get to tell others what's in their job descriptions and what isn't....

I got work to do to...

But better yet... We're just beating this old dead horse to a pulp...

Let's find something else to argu.. er, debate about...

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Originally posted by yogi1950:
RIML...I tend to cringe when military/police similarities come up. During your time on the force, did you have any problems with ex-Grunts trying to work for the police department?

Yogi

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Oh, ya....

But we ain't even gonna go there...

(And an Assistant Chief with pictures of Chesty Puller all over the wall )

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Originally posted by RIML:

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Originally posted by AirborneHound:
I think it would be a travesty if they convicted him.

I believe if the media hadn't been present, we never would have heard about this. Very unfortunate in many ways.

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If a certain John Q. Public hadn't been around, the Rodney King debacle would have gone completely un-noticed.

You may be of the "Let's stick our heads in the sand and pretend bad shidt don't occur" School of Denial - but I sort of like to know what our government is doing out there...

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Do you advocate a camera on every corner to keep an eye on the masses also?

Over zealous cops stopping someone for a traffic violation is a totally different scenario than a stressed out Marine in the heat of battle.

I don't support having the news media out in the field with the troops. The military can police itself. Nothing good came out of all the publicity.

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Originally posted by AirborneHound:
I don't support having the news media out in the field with the troops. The military can police itself. Nothing good came out of all the publicity.

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- If you can't stand public scrutiny.

- If you can't stand public scrutiny.


Don't think the battle field is a place to be scrutinized by the public.

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Originally posted by AirborneHound:
- If you can't stand public scrutiny.


Don't think the battle field is a place to be scrutinized by the public.

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Especially if you have an interest in truth being the first casualty of war.

The truth is, history teaches us that in times of war, all governments lie. It's not going to change anytime soon.

Utopia is a nice thought though.

even if its not "lying"....the cameras angle and its editing can result in any kind of story....and lets face it, no matter how good the camera man is, or the newsman, the sights/sounds/perceptions/emotions just cant be tranmitted through the that kind of media today.

at best its gives some information of whats going on, but no more than that

Ron,

Last thing on this issue---

You have never, ever been involved in a close gound combat situation, with the moise, the smell, the highs, the lows, emotions you never felt, the deaths, the blood, the gore, bullets hitting everywhere, rockets and mortars going off and in this case, the enemy using dead and wounded people as booby-traps.

What do you think the Marines did during battle on Islands such as Guadalcanal when the Japanese attacked by the hundreds in Banzi attacks? Do you actually think they saved all the wounded or didn't finish off those still moving in case they were pretending to be dead?

You keep putting a civilian/police situation to a military combat one thinking in terms as a police officer instead of a combat Marine and therein lies your problem.

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Originally posted by Gary Stanley:
Ron,

Last thing on this issue---

You have never, ever been involved in a close gound combat situation, with the moise, the smell, the highs, the lows, emotions you never felt, the deaths, the blood, the gore, bullets hitting everywhere, rockets and mortars going off and in this case, the enemy using dead and wounded people as booby-traps.

What do you think the Marines did during battle on Islands such as Guadalcanal when the Japanese attacked by the hundreds in Banzi attacks? Do you actually think they saved all the wounded or didn't finish off those still moving in case they were pretending to be dead?

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OK?

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You keep putting a civilian/police situation to a military combat one thinking in terms as a police officer instead of a combat Marine and therein lies your problem.

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No, Gary. You are the one who keeps referring to a "Police" perspective on this - and I only mention it in response. You brought that pony to the show in our discussion with your 09:59 posting - before that I was discussing training with Pelsar.

Now I did mention "Mens rea" which is a legal - and not police term, and would be applicable in a court martial.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: RIML,

Patton said it best: if ya want prisoners you better get them away from the combat soldier real quick!

I've been a police officer and I have been a soldier and I damn sure wouldn't judge a soldiers actions during combat missions.

War is de-humanizing, I am not going to guess why he apologized but having done it it sure showed he was still human!

RIML...LOL, reason I asked was that I went to work for the Collier County (Naples) FL Sheriffs Dept, where I did most of my growing up, after returning home in '71. Finally found out the Sheriff was afraid of putting me on the road because I had been an infantryman...

Yogi

This message has been edited. Last edited by: <yogi1950>,

DANE...AMEN! The few prisoners we took in the bush were hurriedly picked up by a chopper, NOT a good place for NVA troops for any length of time!

Another piece of wisdom that was displayed as WWII ended was getting those combat troops who had to slug it across Western Europe the HELL OUTTA the area and bring in the occupation troops!

NOTHING pains my ass MORE than seeing a combat trooper pulling "roadblock" duty!!!

Yogi

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Originally posted by pelsar:
even if its not "lying"....the cameras angle and its editing can result in any kind of story....and lets face it, no matter how good the camera man is, or the newsman, the sights/sounds/perceptions/emotions just cant be tranmitted through the that kind of media today.

at best its gives some information of whats going on, but no more than that

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The only one that knows what was going through that young Marines mind was him.

I got a good idea though.

GARY..YOU had one HELL of a lot to say about the jackboot Police techniques used at Ruby Ridge AND at Mount Carmel, comparing them to MILITARY techniques...EVEN PHOUCHING BRAGGING about how YOU had assisted Police Departments in "training" their folks in the Military "way".

What kind of BULLSHIT IS this that you are not advocating military tactics for civilian POLICE??? That YOU do not consider yourself to be some sort of "expert" about Police tactics???

JEEZ, and YOUR sorry deranged ass wants to tell ME that I need mental health assistance?

YOU are one seriously phouched up POS!!!

Seems to ME the scolding that you got over your pathetic ANTI-AMERICAN stand concerning Ruby Ridge & Mount Carmel drove you to start a Thread "threatening" to just leave the Site, didn't it.

Chew on THAT for a while and gather your little Cheerleaders around ya, like Fantastique and FateBitch...maybe THEY will suck up to your BS? Jeez, I had one of your little wenches, back then, crawl ALL over me about how many damned holes YOU have in your body!!! Is THAT how you "impress da gals"???

Yogi

This message has been edited. Last edited by: <yogi1950>,

The Marine walked past other dead and wounded Iraqis. Found one and executed him. He then walked to the reporter and said "sorry". He didn't walk over to the reporter and say "phew that was a close one, I thought we were done for"

Did he do it because of the stressors, or did he do it for the "notch in his buttstock". I dunno but he made the wrong choice.

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Originally posted by Dane46:
War is de-humanizing, I am not going to guess why he apologized but having done it it sure showed he was still human!

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Don't think for one minute that police work can't be dehumanizing....

Yogi,

Listen to this you friggin moron:

I trained some Special Police Response Teams when they came through Quantico, VA (Marine Corps Weapons Training Battalion). We used to work with the FBI in training certain groups. You have a friggin problem with that, too friggin bad.( Oh and I hold a NRA-Police Firearms Instructors Certificate)I still help out at the academy range here in Tampa when they need some extra help!

Speaking on the incidents at Ruby Ridge or Waco has nothing to do with daily police operations and you will find no post where I have ever talked about those duties as it is not in my area of real knowledge (although my grandfather, father and brother are retired law enforcement officers) Oh, and Yogi, my grandfather was a grunt in WWI and my brother was an Airborne grunt in Vietnam and both were outstanding police officers.

As to my wounds, I had a few conversations with Fant and a couple of other on the phone in discussing hospital care for wounded in Vietnam and I explained the process I went through on both my wounds and the extent of my wounds. You can make anything out of that you desire, I really could give a rats ass. You continue to attack my service and there is nowhere you can show where I attacked your service. Kinda lets others know what you are!

Fate has earned her respect via serving in the Corps and now being a single mom attending college and doing great. You want to disrespect and dishonor her that is your friggin problem. Goes to show what you are all about!

Fant is a supporter of the US, the President and the American Military and has some strong opinions on those subjects and covers the six of those of like mind. Your problem with her is that you don't believe she has earned the right to be there due to not serving, but that isn't the rule there.

I don't need anyone covering for me or taking the heat for me. I can defend myself, especially against little gonadless wonders like you. I've given you the chance to visit me and kick my ass on several occasions, but you continue to put your daughters into the situation. Are you that gutless to have your daughters fight your friggin fights?

You don't like me Yogi and attack me at every chance you get so why don't you just come on down, kick my ass and get it over with. That way you could get back to being the sick **** you are without having to worry about me anymore?

Grow a pair Yogi!!!! Back up your friggin mouth for once in your life! Like in the ole' days, I'm calling you out! Its time to put up or shut up!

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Den,

You ever walk in the shoes that Marine was walking in? You ever have to make that kind of decision?