On the HOME page,I read the articles about new Hummers finally getting to the troops that need them and then the article in which the AF is proposing to basically strip away the planes of the Air National Guard.
Both are stunning in that the powers that be cannot figure out what to do with the equipment,how much is needed,or where to put it.
In the AF article some idiot is talking about consolidating the Guards aircraft cause it's too spread out!!Hey,boy genius,in this time of airliner bombs,you want the planes put in a few locations to save money,so that if an air emergency happens it'll take longer to scramble and deploy fighters to the trouble spot?Do you have shit for brains Mister??
Keep the Air National Guard where it is,ramp up production,so we don't face a scenario like we have with the Hummvvs.
Speaking of,the Pentagon has again increased the production requirements for the up-armored Hummers.After 2 fu*king years,they still don't realize how essential the new vehicles are,and how many are needed.Un fu*kingbelievable.
We are at WAR.When are the procurement people going to wake up,ramp up production of what's needed, and get it to the TROOPS??
We fought WW II with our factories going full blast.We need to do that NOW!

Global War Against Terrorism on the cheap. Go figure.

I agree, when I was in Iraq in 03' we didn't even have doors on our Hummers or body armor, what kind of BS is that!

Come on guy's....you all know that the military procurment system is overwhelmed and antiquated. Not offering up excuses, just pointing out realities.

Point to be considered...when the decision was made for a replacement for a combat vehicle ie: the venerable WWII type JEEP, and a HUMVEE was selected, the criteria for adaquate protection against roadside bombs and mines, RPG's was never asked for or even really considered. (Geez, I think we were just getting our asses out of NAM....) Had this been specified by the military, the design would have been included WHEN the contract for thier production was authorized. Items such as the design of the underside of the vehicle which has removable armour plates, configured in such a manner that the blast is deflected away from the passenger compartment. (kind of like the V hull of a boat) Armour proofed glass, ballistic panels. Had these been thought of and designed in, we would not be in this position.

Now we are in react mode, due to a totally new type of warfare (urban and terrorist/insurrgents) and radical re-design of existing vehicles is in progress, in form of retro-fit kits is ongoing, but we are way behind the power curve in getting them done and shipped out where they are most needed.


One other point to ponder...there is no such thing a vehicle that meets all needs, and works in all combat situations, or is perfect in every way, that would address every situation one can think or imagine. It doesn't exist nor will it ever exist. Even if one were to actually design such a vehicle, it probably wouldn't be able to move very far.


As far as the Air National Guard situation......reorganization must take effect, if we are to create a viable defense against commercial airliners turned into weapons. Certainly you can see this?

Remember, we haven't fought this type of war before, and hadn't the for-thought to prepare for that we have never really experienced before. We had a small taste of it during Desert Storm and perhaps Somlia, but not on the scale of which we are dealing with today. Reading the future is not something our government and military are very good at, with the exception of what's gonna happen if someone launches or gets ahold of a nuclear or biological weapon. Now if you have a crystal ball that can do this...please let someone else make better use of it.....

Gunny,I understand that it takes time for the bloated military bureaucracy to get amped up and start rolling out new vehicles (or whatever),but SecDef has repeatedly said that there is a program in place to streamline the process.Well,it's been two years,the DOD keeps upping its numbers on how many armored Hummers it needs.How much time is enough?
Doesn't procurement have culpability in the way needed military items are so slow to arrive in the field?You mean that no one knew that fighting in urban combat would necesitate more armor,different vehicles for different uses?Stryker vehicles,up-armored Humms,Bradleys,don't forget the old M-113's we have hundreds of.
Isn't that the job of military planners and analysists?To plan for different scenarios and have the equipment READY,not 2 years later.
Reminds me of the German staff in WWII that did not give winter clothes to the troops for the first Russian winter....no need for winter clothes,we'll be in Moscow by then.Foolish,complacent,arrogant thinking.And it killed thousands of German troops then and is killing hundreds of our troops now.
As far as the Air Guard goes,they protect the US.They are the ones that scramble and intercept stray planes that arrive in our airspace.We may need to reorganize the Guard but to strip Commands down to 0 planes?Making it more difficult for the Guard to intercept threats from the air?Surely that is the wrong approach,another "save money" scheme that could prove to be way too costly if the unthinkable happens again.

Reckon you missed my point entirely. Yes what the Sec Def stated is a fact. There is a program in place to upgrade existing vehicles. There isn't a bloated military bureaucracy involved here, but rather a legislative one, as well as the commercial business one. You've no doubt heard of the saying 'lowest bidder wins the contract?' This is in full swing here.

If you want to lay the blame on anyone, try looking in the mirror first. If you haven't voted out those congressmen and women that consistantly vote against military equipment requests for funding and projects, then the blame rests entirely on you and a public that flat out ain't helping us. They approve and appropriate the johnny cash required to make these things your complaining about happen, or not.

Just so you know, we have fielded a new combat vehicle and you mentioned it, the Stryker. It's performing relatively well, and the factory is on track and keeping them coming.

As for the M-113's you mentioned....geez what a concept son....yeah, lets throw vehicles made in 1950 into the mix and see how they do! The last one to roll off assy line was in 1983. What year is this? Like its easily transportable too, we'll just drive up a cargo container ship through the Tigres river and off load a couple of battalions of them. Spare parts? Who needs em? Much less who's gonna make them? How many tons can a BlackHawk helo haul? Don't think it's gonna pick up 13.5 tons and get where its going.....Talk about a logistical nightmare in the making.....

Please avoid making comparisons to WWII, especially comparisons to German mistakes. We are not killing hundreds of our troops due to not having correct uniforms. While I will agree that the idea of issuing a bullet proof vest to each and every troop assigned to a combat zone is a great idea, it ain't possible to do so simply because there ain't enough of them to go around in the first place. The military never demanded them, civilians are the ones demanding them for troops.....geez thats a switch huh? Companies that make them are gearing up to produce em as a result, thats great, but oh crap, we are back to getting the funding approval to pay for em again......

The Air National Guard......we have more than enough military aircraft available to escort stray aircraft around. Remember, the Air National Guard aircraft are already very old when they got them in the first place. It ain't like these guy's are flying state of the art aircraft....far from it, they are flying aircraft that are one step away from the boneyard. Probably the newest aircraft they fly is a 15 to 20 year old F-15.