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Picture of Weatherman1956
Location: Where America's day begins.
Registered: 08 March 2005
Posts: 1008
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New in Canada:

Military fitness test axed
Out-of-shape recruits will be accepted, and sent to trainers for improvement


quote:

OTTAWA — A minimum level of fitness is no longer required of those who wish to join the Canadian Forces.

A notice posted in the recruiting section of Canada's military website says that, as of Oct. 1, the regular test to determine physical capabilities that has traditionally been demanded of all new applicants has been eliminated.

It's a change that comes as the Forces, stretched to the limit with deployment of more than 2,200 soldiers in Afghanistan, tries to increase its ranks by 8,000 members over the next five years even as attrition is depleting them.

After joining the Forces, however, recruits will still be subject to a medical examination — and those who can't meet the grade physically will be turned over to trainers who will try to get them into the kind of condition required to begin their life in the military, the notice on the website says.

“For the Regular Force, the Canadian Forces Leadership and Recruit School will be responsible for assessing physical fitness and will implement a program to assist new enrolees to reach an acceptable level of physical fitness prior to commencing basic training,” the notice says. “For the Reserve Force, contact your local unit for more information.”

A physical fitness guide for new applicants that is available on the Canadian Forces website “remains available for applicants wishing to self-evaluate and increase their physical fitness level,” the notice says.

The military did not return calls Wednesday to explain the change in policy. But it follows a loosening of standards south of the border as American recruiters try to keep fresh troops rotated into Iraq. The U.S. Defence Department has asked Congress to raise the maximum age for military recruits to 42 from 35.

Military veterans in this country say anyone under the age of 58 is welcome at Canadian recruiting offices, although that could not be confirmed yesterday.

The physical fitness evaluation that had previously been required of people joining the military does not seem to have been terribly onerous. Men under 35, for instance, were required to perform 19 pushups, 19 sit-ups, squeeze 75 kilograms in a hand grip, and run 2.4 kilometres in an acceptable period of time.

The fitness guide also suggests that new recruits arrive with a weight that is acceptable according to the body mass index scale. That concern has apparently diminished.

“If you're 450 pounds, they will recruit you and then put you in a fat camp until you are ready,” said Scott Taylor, a military veteran and editor of Esprit de Corps magazine.

The new edition of the magazine contains a satirical spoof suggesting that anyone who could walk up the stairs to a recruiting office would be signed up. But “it's not funny any more,” Mr. Taylor said. Now a recruit “can just yell from the bottom of the stairs and they will wheel him away — ‘Take me off to boot camp.'”

Meanwhile, Canada's top general said the Canadian Forces are not having any problem at the moment finding recruits.

“Kids are flocking to our recruiting centres,” said General Rick Hillier, Chief of the Defence Staff, who estimated that recruitment levels are “twice the rate of last year.”

The big problem with recruitment is not the levels, Gen. Hillier said, but finding new troops from minority groups to make the military a more diverse institution.

Gen. Hillier was responding to questions at the House foreign affairs committee about whether the Canadian Forces might have to take shortcuts in training to get enough combat troops to maintain Canada's commitment to the Afghanistan war for two more years.

There will be “no shortcuts on training,” he said. He was not asked specifically about the physical performance requirements new recruits must meet.

Gen. Hillier and Defence Minister Gordon O'Connor told the MPs that they are thinking of putting some military personnel from the navy or air force into Afghanistan in support roles.

For example, sailors might be able to operate the military truck convoys used to move supplies in Afghanistan, Mr. O'Connor said.

Likewise, radio operators or intelligence officers from other branches might be assigned to support roles in Afghanistan.

New recruits hoping to make a career in the military might have to serve a two-year initial hitch as combat infantry soldiers before they can move on to training for other trades, such as working with high-tech electronics equipment, Gen. Hillier said.

He noted that about 20 per cent of the troops in Afghanistan are reservists.

But this is not a particular problem for training because the reservists are usually on active duty for two years before returning to civilian jobs.

Mr. O'Connor told reporters after the meeting that all troops have to pass drug tests before being assigned to Afghanistan.

He was responding to a CTV News report quoting an unnamed military source as saying that as many as 300 out of 1,000 troops failed a drug test.

Mr. O'Connor doubted the report, saying that the drug-use rate in the military tends to be lower than in the general population.

The minister said that when soldiers fail drug tests they get a second test. Those who test positive a second time are put into drug rehabilitation programs.


http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.2006...NStory/National/home


Was this not the U.S.'s problem after WWII when the vets and regulars got wined and dined...got fat then were 'run down' by the chicoms when Korea I started?


Hafa Adai!
Registered: 19 February 2006
Posts: 1286
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america was actually allowing slightly over weight people to stay in before canada started doing it. So now they are letting in fat people and low test scores (and of course its sugar coated by the military that there not that fat and the scores arent that bad). When they start accepting people like me that defy athority and fail to adapt and regualarly go AWOL what will the cavscouts of this country do. Oh thats right start shooting people in the back, hmm wont that kinda make us like 3rd world countrys.
Picture of watchman
Registered: 29 June 2006
Posts: 195
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The American & Canadian military change of policy is born out of desperation. The number of quality new military recruits are unfortunately dwindling. As more & more Americans & Canadians are weary of the war in Afghanistan & Iraq. Increasing casualties in Irag & Afghanistan, sad to say has weaken the resolve of a once proud & strong nations. It is very unfortunate that this new generation of Americans & Canadians do not have the will & perseverance necessary to win a long & bloody war against the terrorist. Frowner
Picture of Aufklarer
Registered: 06 September 2006
Posts: 511
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Hey, rppearso, there goes your way of getting out of the army!! cheer


Picture of Airwinger
Registered: 06 March 2005
Posts: 361
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Pearson failed basic training, but in his defense, well, not really his defense along those lines, but If I were him, I'd feel pretty irritated that standards are being lowered here at home, though too late for his problems with the military.

We often think of the noble and valiant when we think of our fighting forces, but the rude awakening always comes one way or another when we're reminded that they are all run by bureaucrats with no sense of esprit de corps.
Picture of Ronnec
Registered: 15 November 2006
Posts: 72
AIM: Online Status For typhoonat9
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Honestly some people need the armed forces to discipline them, and if there's a will, there's a way.

If a undisciplined person has a desire to start on a clean slate, they should be given that opportunity (especially if the system works).

Well, only if the system works. It sounds like it might.

Interesting.


“Whether it be by divine intervention or natural instinct, one thing is certain- Harmony with the universe and those around you is the one known truth.”- John Mapehk Tosher
Picture of Aufklarer
Registered: 06 September 2006
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Thing is, rppearso is special. And he doesn't have the will to start on a clean slate.


Picture of Ronnec
Registered: 15 November 2006
Posts: 72
AIM: Online Status For typhoonat9
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quote:
Originally posted by Aufklarer:
Thing is, rppearso is special. And he doesn't have the will to start on a clean slate.

rppearso's fat?


“Whether it be by divine intervention or natural instinct, one thing is certain- Harmony with the universe and those around you is the one known truth.”- John Mapehk Tosher
Registered: 19 February 2006
Posts: 1286
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I am overweight for military standards, but am by no means obese by the rest of the nations standards. Alot of people like to melodramatize things.
Picture of patoloco
Location: Arizona
Registered: 08 May 2005
Posts: 1794
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quote:
Alot of people like to melodramatize things.


Oh man, thanks for that. You were really pissing me off for a while. Now THAT was funny.
Picture of Aufklarer
Registered: 06 September 2006
Posts: 511
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We should give rppearso some sort of medal for that post.

It's the only one of his posts that I haven't seen 869 times yet.


Location: Ahwatukee Arizona
Registered: 08 April 2007
Posts: 10
AIM: Online Status For strtshogun
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i think its about time we start letting people with lower test scores and slightly out of shape bodies join the military. To me, its like this, if we were just regular animals, those people would already be dead because they were not able to survive. So what is happeneing now is that a lot of these people that are academically challenged are just sitting here on the earth taking up our natural resources and doing jack. if we throw them in infantry, with hope that they can take out a few enemies, then thats less healthy normal people that will be put in harms way. not to mention the fact that we will be able to re allocate natural resources like food water and shelter to people that can actually apply themselves and benefit America. Thats just the way i personally thought about it. kind of a sick way of thinking, but sometimes I go about my daily life and i see civilians that just sit there and do nothing with their lives to benefit their environment and it makes me sick. sick to the stomach. especially because they are just utilizing resources that could be used towards sustaining people that acutally serve a purpose in life.


Corpsman FMF
Registered: 08 March 2007
Posts: 328
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The policy seems to make sense to me, losing weight is feasible for most people, and high test scores aren't needed for lots of jobs in the military, like driving a supply truck, that takes experience and driving skill, not test scores. Also since we are having such a problem finding people to put their lives on the line that we're sending national guard and recruiters overseas it looks like we need most people we can get.


"Untutored Courage is useless in the face of educated bullets"
-George Patton
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it. "
Thomas Jefferson
Picture of thegunny
Registered: 24 January 2005
Posts: 3439
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hmmm, ever try to help a fat guy over a wall while getting shot at? ever try to carry a fat guy that is wounded? any of this sinking in to those of you that have never been there?


SEMPER FI
The Gunny

PROUD TO BE AN INFIDEL

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don’t.

“The Meek shall inherit the earth….after I’m through with it.”

A pessimist's blood type is always b-negative
Picture of thegunny
Registered: 24 January 2005
Posts: 3439
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hmmmm, perhaps the weight standards make a little more sense now? Should we have a dual set of standards, one for those that work in an office and one for those that actually have to project our nations policies via force? Is this what you guy's are recommending we do?


SEMPER FI
The Gunny

PROUD TO BE AN INFIDEL

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don’t.

“The Meek shall inherit the earth….after I’m through with it.”

A pessimist's blood type is always b-negative
Registered: 08 March 2007
Posts: 328
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1. Yes I think we should have a dual set, because weight isn't a factor with paper pushing.
2. The massive excercise of being in the army would certainly go far in slimming someone out. So they wouldn't be that heavy for long
3. Having a heavy comrade is far more prefferable than none, is it not?


"Untutored Courage is useless in the face of educated bullets"
-George Patton
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it. "
Thomas Jefferson
Picture of thegunny
Registered: 24 January 2005
Posts: 3439
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Ok, then the fat guy's can just lay there an bleed.


SEMPER FI
The Gunny

PROUD TO BE AN INFIDEL

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don’t.

“The Meek shall inherit the earth….after I’m through with it.”

A pessimist's blood type is always b-negative
"Curmudgeon"
Picture of HarryP
Location: Washtenaw County, Michigan
Registered: 21 January 2005
Posts: 1927
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Paper pushers do not always end up sitting at a nice desk enjoying coffee. There are times (as I have witnessed) when it is necessary to put them beyond the wire because of shortages. We need troops who are fit!


"It is fatal to enter any war without the will to win it"
DOUGLAS MacARTHUR, 1952
Registered: 08 March 2007
Posts: 328
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1. Well if the alternative is no troops, I think we need to be less selective, beggars (which we currently are) can't be choosers.
2. Do you honestly think the amazingly tough excercise regimine that is the military can't help these people drop those pounds?


"Untutored Courage is useless in the face of educated bullets"
-George Patton
"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it. "
Thomas Jefferson
Picture of thegunny
Registered: 24 January 2005
Posts: 3439
Posted   Hide PostReply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post  
Just because our northern canuck friends have to lower thier military service entrance standards, means that we have to? I don't think so.

Yes, our exercise programs do work, however the individual has to want it to work and put forth the effort. Too many times we end up with the likes of fat arse ronald.


SEMPER FI
The Gunny

PROUD TO BE AN INFIDEL

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don’t.

“The Meek shall inherit the earth….after I’m through with it.”

A pessimist's blood type is always b-negative
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