Okay, things are slowing down so here's grist for the mill.

Anyone else tired of hearing about how illegal immigrants do our economy such a big favor by working here? As if they're doing it out of some larger sense of selfless service, and not just making a living like the rest of us.

You know what, if you take any sub-group demographic out of our economy overnight, the economy would suffer. But oh the joys of a free market, we would recover, regardless of who that was.

Along the lines of Ayn Rand and Atlas Shrugged, the only group departure that would have a permenent affect would be the innovators and creators.

And I'm for an immigration solution that doesn't just involve "gettin' rid" of them all. Please, lets be realistic, a vast majority of illegals are hard working family types. But lets do away with the notion that they've come to America to do us a favor, and that my lawn wouldn't get cut without them.

Those comments either come from people looking for votes or those who do not want to pay minimum wage (I will leave stupid off).

In Ann Arbor, the average fast food worker gets paid between $10 and $12 an hour because it is the only way they can get people to work there. That is the system at work.

Illegal immigration has always been a hot button for me. I live in the great state of Texas where Im on the front line of this matter. I know its gonna be impossible to stop it completely as some darn fool is gonna find ways around it. What we need is a viable solution. My deal would be to put the National Guard on the border and have them actively patrolling with loaded weapons to be able to defend themselves. Im tired of the hippies and liberal left saying we need to give the illegals a chance. But yet, in a way, yall are correct that a lot of them are hard workers. They've just been screwed over on how to do things correctly

I think you believe that about fast food workers getting $10 and 12 an hour, but I hear the same thing here in Phx, a much larger city with a higher cost of living. And after a similar conversation like this, I asked around some of my students who have worked fast food, and they were all getting minimum wage; $5.50/hr.

I know it because of competition for workers and discussing it with business people (also the ads in the paper). It is a matter of available people in that strange community.

True, Ann Arbor is an odd place. One of my longtime barracks mates was from there, and he didn't do the Ann Arbor tourism trade any favors.

Too many students living off of mom and dad, so I guess I could see the higher fast food wages.

quote:

Originally posted by Airwinger:
I think you believe that about fast food workers getting $10 and 12 an hour, but I hear the same thing here in Phx, a much larger city with a higher cost of living. And after a similar conversation like this, I asked around some of my students who have worked fast food, and they were all getting minimum wage; $5.50/hr.

Hmmmm. are your students legal U.S. residents? seems around our area of Illinois, high school students find it hard to even get a job, because so many Illegals are employed (Illegal)
in jobs they (students) would be doing. Only In America

Phoenix (where I live) has one of the higher concentrations of illegal immigration in the country, and finding a job here is easy. Especially if you're that low in the employment food chain. There are more help wanted signs at restaurants than I care to keep up with.

So the idea that illegals are pushing the local teenagers out of the Illinois job market is demonstrably wrong.

More likely, the middle class teens aren't wanting to do that kind of work. They'll look at a favorite restaurant right next to Starbucks, and they're not hiring, so they'll say that no one is hiring.

I teach teenagers, and you have to interpret pretty much everything they say.

And my minimum wage earning students are white. The Mexican kids that do work, tend to work with family or have got themselves in someplace where a friend was working and have done better. But they're all legal, so perhaps the point is moot on that example.

We are starting to have a few fast food restaurants where the kitchen staff speaks Spanish but even here there is not the will to work by many teens (I do sub for the dears and understand your points Airwinger). The area where I live has always employed legal immigrants and we have a special program (a successful one) that teaches the children when they are not working.

I remember seeing an electronic game that is cruel and it is hard to imagine how peoples can enjoy it. It is about shooting illegal immigrants over the border, if you shoot a pregnant woman, the score doubles. I can't believe there are people who'd find this good.

Suppose there are a thousand more morons born into the USA, who grow up living on social welfare or a thousand hard working family style illegal immigrants to get in there, who help make the country better, which case would you prefer? Population is difficult to control in US cause you guys don't have government birth control, and the freaking immigration law is making it impossible for foreigners to get a visa to travel there. Do some of Americans assume they are so hot and rich every one want to rob them?

Besides US is nice nowadays cause of land, water,other natural resources, adequate population, little invasion, etc. Those are "good luck" of the country, not something that really belong to them. I don't see the point of trying so hard to not to let others share. All are humans and should be equal according to your own national constitution.

I have a university professor in science, he is a renowned scholar and have been around the world for academic meetings,he have very good pay and benefits like traveling with his wife, also a professor whenever, wherever he likes for free, while gov send special staff to take care of them along the way, a VERY NICE house for free, etc.Those pay and benefits last for his life time He sent his two kids to immigrant to US right after they graduated university, that was back in the early 1980's when scholars in China are poor paid.

Now his children are struggling to make a living in US, if they had stayed, they could have made it to a university professor with no fame at least, and enjoy a great life.Recently they consider moving back to China, but their own teenage kids command too little Chinese to keep up here.

Each time those children come to visit my professor, they get on plane empty handed, all the fees are covered by their parents in China and they'd get back to US with trunks of gifts.

Guess it is a bit off the topic of illegal immigration, but just provide something you might not know. Peoples used to think immigration to a rich country is all good, now we are becoming more considerate. Moving to a foreign country means terrible homesick, not able to see your family and the place you grow up and used to, leaving the familiar language, custom, every thing behind, if add hard working, barely make a decent living to that, the benefit of a better social & natural environment dosn't seem that worthy.

quote:

Originally posted by Airwinger:
I think you believe that about fast food workers getting $10 and 12 an hour, but I hear the same thing here in Phx, a much larger city with a higher cost of living. And after a similar conversation like this, I asked around some of my students who have worked fast food, and they were all getting minimum wage; $5.50/hr.

Your students? You mean they let them work in a fast food joint if they actually understand English and won't screw up your order?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Fang:
I remember seeing an electronic game that is cruel and it is hard to imagine how peoples can enjoy it. It is about shooting illegal immigrants over the border, if you shoot a pregnant woman, the score doubles. I can't believe there are people who'd find this good.

[QUOTE]

That game is on the internet (Iconfess to playing it once ) and I certainly don't condone shooting women and children. Just saying that it does reflect frustration with the problem. Good contruction jobs (carpentry, drywall, roofing) is now done by illegals. Contractor charges you as if he was paying union rates, say $26 an hour on up, but pays them only $11-12. So Americans are screwed out of jobs and prices are still high.

Is it worth it? Not when illegals make up half of the Federal prison population on California. And they are not being held for immigration violations.
the Center for Immigration Studies Steven Camorata noted in 2004: "Roughly 17 percent of the prison population at the federal level are illegal aliens. That's a huge number since illegal aliens only account for about 3 percent of the total population."

As to the "hard-working" claim, CIS notes: "The proportion of immigrant-headed households using at least one major welfare program is 24.5 percent compared to 16.3 percent for native households."

I say herd 'em up and move 'em out. Or better yet, employers who knowingly hire them should have their businesses confiscated and auctioned off and repeat offenders among employers should join their illegal buddies in the slammer.

Seems you're not the only one PT. I personally am not offended by the game. There's just too much out there I could spend more time being concerned with....
It is good to see that the "offended by everything" attitude is alive in....China is it? Good for them. Need some good ole PC crap over there to drag on society as much as it does here.

Small-town, N.Y. mayors differ on illegal aliens

By Charles Hurt
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
July 6, 2006

Mayor Louis Barletta of Hazleton, Pa., yesterday told senators at a special "field hearing" in Philadelphia that illegal aliens have strained his city's services and brought a wave of crime.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20060705-114727-5619r.htm

quote:

Originally posted by patoloco:

It is good to see that the "offended by everything" attitude is alive in....China is it? Good for them. Need some good ole PC crap over there to drag on society as much as it does here.

pataloco you raise a very good point. Am I the only one who feels uneasy about "sensitivity training" otherwise known as Re-reducation Camp, Mao-style, like what Ozzie Guillan had to go through for one lousy word?
At least John Rocker had the honesty to call it the horsesh*t it is.

Buth there I go being insensitive again.

So when the immigrants move out, you are all willing to take their place working at McDonalds?

Folks, it is a freaking election year. I am 38 yrs old, and in my lifetime I have seen this issue come and go constantly, and mysteriously it always appears around election time.

I am not saying that immigration should not be discussed, but you have to ask yourselves why is this not brought up in years in between elections? Because otherwise the politicians just dont give a *****.

The problem is, I really have yet to see this issue as a OMG THE WORLD IS DOOMED as people make it out to be. I have a better idea, instead of whining amount immigration, why not clamp down on the businesses that hire illegals? Without demand there would be no cause.

Keep in mind folks, especially those of Irish or German, or Italian heritage that many of the statements you make today like "ship them all off" were made regarding your kin.

Really, so some stupid people have to compete for their janitor job, I could care less because they are a lazy ignorant fool too stupid to have gotten off their @ss and gotten an education.

Why do people keep leaving off the word "illegal"....I know the media keeps doing this, but folks, THAT's what we're talking about. I have Irish, German, and Italian descendents (among others- including French, it's a miracle I made the military a career...). All were LEGAL immigrants.

My greatgrandmother was sent to Canada from England to work as a domestic at a young age because here parents were dead. She somehow ended up in Michigan without making it too legal. We all have a little darkness in our family.

quote:

Originally posted by patoloco:
Why do people keep leaving off the word "illegal"....I know the media keeps doing this, but folks, THAT's what we're talking about. I have Irish, German, and Italian descendents (among others- including French, it's a miracle I made the military a career...). All were LEGAL immigrants.

Word!
In addition to which, those German, Irish an Italian immigrants wanted to assimilate and become AMERICANS. They had no desire to continue waving the flag of their old country in the USA or sing the National Anthem in a parady version, making fun of the country that gave them work, in Gaelic, Italian or Deutsch.

Show me the equivilant from those or any other ethnic immigrant groups to La Raza and Reconquista. If things continue the US will be a bifurcated nation, split in two by two predominat languages and cultures drifting apart a la Quebec and the rest of Canada. Perhaps even setting the stage for a future Civil War, NEast<-->SWest, roughly speaking, instead of North<-->South. It's unlikely but not impossible.