After swearing an oath to "Defend the constitution of the government of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic:" how would you react to this situation?

Question:
If the President of the United States proclaimed martial law and ordered the collection of all legal firearms guaranteed to the citizens by the constitution, you would;

Choices:
Attempt to collect all legal firearms as ordered
Defend the constitution and refuse to collect them
Don't know at this time
Decline to answer

 

Interesting first post there, OldOwl..

tell me, how would refusing to follow a legal order proclaimed by the Head of State/Government be {" defending the Constitution."? [ and which President did you have in mind in devising this questionaire? Hillary? ]

quote:

Originally posted by Rocketeer:
Interesting first post there, OldOwl..

tell me, how would refusing to follow a legal order proclaimed by the Head of State/Government be {" defending the Constitution."? [ and which President did you have in mind in devising this questionaire? Hillary? ]

Thank you. I think all posts should be at least “Interesting.”

In reply to your first question, I thought was self explanatory, you only have two options of action.
1. Follow orders.
2. Defend the citizens’ constitutional rights to bear arms by noncompliance.


It’s not complicated.

Answering your second question: Hillary who?

“President” is just what it implies. It’s a hypothetical question.

I hope I answered your questions, and I hope you will answer mine.

in the interest of debate let's be hypotehtical, indeed.

One must assume that at some point all, or the majority of legal gun owners in America suddenly got it into their heads to use their lawfully registered firearms in a illegal manner, thus breaking the law..

One must assume, then, that the duly appointed officers of the law, outgunned or outnumbered by this sudden mob of gun wielders were incapable of suppressing this sudden mass illegal firearm use and that they couldn't arrest everyone in a timely/safe manner..

One must assume that they couldn't/wouldn't get the support of [or they were inadequate] their local/state government in suppressing such an event by having the state police/national guard support the local constabulary in their duly authorized arresting of such an insurgency.

One must assume, then that the Federal Government, in the person of the executive branch/President was called upon by said State authorities to assist in what is becoming a national' disaster' and allow the President to release Federal Agencies such as the FBI/NSA/DEA/ATF..and other alphabets to support/suppress such rampant madness across the nation..

Finally, one must assume that the President, apprised that these supporting agencies, being insufficient to suppress the rising mad tide of legal gun owners suddenly en masse being illegal then sets aside the posse comutatus act and asks/orders the Joint Chiefs to send in the military to suppress such madness among the population in support of local authorities..

One must assume, of course, that this decree from the President has the full support/acknowledgment of the House of Representatives/Senate who have, one hopes, not spent too much time debating and arguing over the need/right, etc.. in light of the constant shooting of irate, gun toting citizens [ some 330 million, perhaps? or just those who have legal guns, of which there are more legal weapons than there are people in the US at present ]

A lot of assumptions, but I think, if one is to accept your initial suggestion, the logical steps to be taken.

Or, are you suggesting that some President happens to wake up one morning , pissed off over the temperature of his coffee or the sogginess of his corn flakes and decides to declare Martial Law arbitrarily?

then, one must assume that the Vice-President doesn't concurs, and doesn't move to have him/her removed from office for being non corpus mentis, that Congress votes unanimously to accept his directive, that the Joint Chiefs are comfortable in accepting that the directive to march troops into every state, city,town and village to incarcerate all gun owners and shoot it out with the aforementioned 330 million law abiding citizens who have, we must assume by your suggested voting hypothesis, done nothing with their firearms except use them in law abiding manners up to this point..

even the supposed draconian measures of the Patriot Act and Homeland Security are insufficient to allow a president to do as you have suggested in such an arbitrary manner and on his own volition without the other branches of the Government stepping in to block/modify/or otherwise thwart such an initiative.

A hell of a lot of assumptions to be made including the assumption that the President [ any president ] has that absolute authority and would not be challenged or blocked from ever doing what you are suggesting..

I can think of only one instance when a president ever sent federal troops into a situation to suppress local/state authority and that was during the passage of anti-segregation laws to protect black students attending white schools when the state government tried to use the National Guard/Police to block their entry..[if I recall my history correctly ]

In short, you proposal is beyond hypotehtical and verges on fantasy..but, still... interesting first post.

Over to you, I await your rebuttle.

Huh. Damn Rocketeer, I was going to say it's one of those "catch me, f*ck me" questions and leave at that.

Sorry. No rebuttle. I thought answering your questions would get the poll started. I'd like to entertain your imagination, but it's just a poll not a debate or Harry Potter novel. I'll check back in 30 days and tally this into the national average. The police sources are providing vastly more results, but it's all based on percentages. You know the old saying... but a group of Marines in a room with four steel walls and they'll lose two and break one.

No rebuttal? No rational, reasoned debate?..hmmm.. So this was a Straw Man bogus poll, then?
questions slanted to deliver a predicted outcome wherein the rabid NRA-ers will all punch the Charlton Heston patented response " Pulled from the hands of my cold, dead body " option?

no thought to the ridiculous number of circumstances and coincidences that would have to fall into place for the suggested Presidential declaration to take place and be enforced- either escalating mass hysteria and disobedience beyond the control of ever increasing law enforecement or the quiet acquiesence of the entire governmental structure to a whim of a deranged Head of State who far outsepped his executive mandate [ is there even a provision in the Executive orders for the office of president that allows for him/her to dismiss the Judiciary, ignore Congress and demand unquestioned obedience from the Military Command without any oversight, checks or balances? ]

were you hoping that a bunch of good ol' boys would stumble on this ' poll' whiule surfing the weeb for porn between bouts of beer drinking and Sunday football and slap the " Hell no ! " button without considering the consequences then go off for a pee and a sandwich giving you the results you wanted?

wasted time and effort on my part then

As I recall this is exactly what happend in Nazi germany, they first collected guns and then collected people to burn in concentation camps. Germany had a president and representitive system and then hitler was declaired dictator for life and once he took away everyones guns he was able to round them up and burn them with out to much resistance because what will you resist with if you have no means to defend yourself in any meaningfull manner. You think this nation is any different think again, we may not ever have concentration camps but but there are alot of people that would like to see guns banned for "the greater good" which does nothing more than leave legal citizens exposed to gang bangers, immigrants and beligerant off duty military personel near bases. So to me the situations rocketter came up with are fantasy, it is more likely that the government is opressing the people than the people in anarcy and if the people are toting guns in an organized fassion you have yourself a civil war which is much much different from random anarchy. Of course making arguments like rocketter did keeps him in his comfort zone because disobaying a questionable order puts him in conflicting situation and forces him to think for himself and even though he knows the right thing to do he does not want to upset his superoiurs because the military rules in fear, the defense of the constitution superceds any "lawful order" any mouth piece can give a "lawful order". Seeing who stands up to defend the constitution (civilian or military) is the true test of integrity vs thoes who just say "yess sir" I will do what ever you say sir dumb dee dumb.

People dont want to risk going to levenworth or lossing there base leave or face "UCMJ action" which leads to levenworth or a whole myriad of other bogus consequences that are designed to keep military members in fear so that they can be controled. If you see a whole sale gun ban or a ban on particular types of weapons that are useful for defending yourself against other people with guns (like semi auto .223 to .5 cal magazine fed weapons) during a time of civil war silencers will be a must, you know it might be time to learn to speak another language and start seeking employment elsewhere if this ever started to happen and God be with the poor smuch Joes who are forced to betray there nation or risk "UCMJ action", the best thing to do at that point for them would be to go AWOL and shoot whoever you need to to get out of dodge.

blah, blah, blah..and a yada, tada, yada, repeatso..

more illiterate grumblings.. off duty boozed up soldiers wandering off base with loaded weapons.. like that will happen..more likely the local drug dealer will off you before the army ever gets to you..nutbar [ here's hoping ]..and ..as I outlined in my reply to Owl, what 'lawful order' ? would that be?

A so-called Predidential ' command ' to disarm the whole [ and here's the key word ] law abiding population of the United States would never be carried out unless,[ and that's a monumental ' if' predicated on a thousand failures and questioning by hundreds of government officals/legalists. etc. -see my previous posts above ] the Congress, the Supreme Court, the Joint Chiefs, the State Governors and everyone in authority[ right down to the elected dog catcher ] accepted his decree without once challenging his ' right' [ under presidential rules - show me where the President has that arbitrary authority ]..

this is a fantasy all right.. it is base paranoia by a gun lobbyist with a fear that his pet Colt 45 will be impotent when the demon Democrats take power..

crawl back into your double cheeseburger and large fries, renutso.. and leave the issues to adults...

PS: not sure what your second post is about.. are you suggesting that the American people have been denied their freedom by not being allowed to purchase civilian models of 50 cal belt fed armour piercing spent uranium full auto machine guns for' hunting purposes ' or in case a horde of drunken Basic Disqualified recruits go on a rampage over the temperature of their army issue porridge? .

PPS: this macho posturinmg from a crybaby who blubbered because the sgt. made him polish his boots a second time or remake his bed in the morning.. recrapso.. you would be the last guy to stand up to such an order and the first to hand over your water pistol...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Rocketeer,

It would not be a legal order.

Rock, I said I wouldn’t get involved with dialogue, but you ignorance and arrogance astounds me. You must spend too much time watching Bull O’Reilly while building model airplanes in a confined space, because you seem to bully everyone with no sound facts to back up your rhetoric. Have you been living in a cave or a coma for the past seven years? We are living under a dictatorship. We made preemptive strikes on two nations, and there are two more on the drawing board. Both political parties are ruin by a global regime of illegal banking systems, selling our nation a piece at a time, dictating, killing religion, undermining our constitution, and destroying our sovereignty.

The rock said:
“A so-called Predidential ' command ' to disarm the whole [ and here's the key word ] law abiding population of the United States would never be carried out unless,[ and that's a monumental ' if' predicated on a thousand failures and questioning by hundreds of government officals/legalists. etc. -see my previous posts above ] the Congress, the Supreme Court, the Joint Chiefs, the State Governors and everyone in authority[ right down to the elected dog catcher ] accepted his decree without once challenging his ' right' [ under presidential rules - show me where the President has that arbitrary authority ]..”

Were you asleep when Bush attacked Iraq and Afghanistan without consulting congress?

Were you asleep when he pardoned Scooter Libby before he was even imprisoned?

Were you asleep when he made a deal with President Fox to prosecute our border guards for doing their jobs?

I can go on all night on Bush’s corruption and lies, but I don’t have time for private classes for you.

The only thing worse than a cyber bully is and ignorant cyber bully with an agenda based on point of view and no facts. Lighten up and learn something will ya?


Rppearso,

It’s refreshing to see that SOMEBODY is paying attention to the world around them and not buying into the mainstream media brainwashing. One small detail you have missed, and I’m sure you would have discovered it on your own, but FEMA has constructed about 600 camps across the United States. They claim in case we need them for immigration, while we leave our borders wide open. If anyone buys into that story…

http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/164.html



Go to this link and click on the second video down on the left to see documentation of one secret American internment camp designed for? http://www.oldworldorder.org/losing_your_rights_and_privacy.html

The truth will set you free.

Old Owl,

you've been drinking from the same fountain as Deaf Messenger haven't you?

Damn those Bush Nazis..

tell me again how all those things that Dubya did somehow were ignored, missed or not even discussed by any other member/branch or department of the Government and weren't accepted/authorized or, at least debated on the floor of the Senate or House of Reps, in the media.etc .etc. and no one stood on Pennsylvania Ave. in a big mass with signs protesting and denouncing and phoning all the government leaders and yelling..

I don't care what side of the fence you're on, but it seems to me that the " Liberation " of Iraq and the ' Rescue " of Afghanistan have garnered pretty much an apathetic response from the general public, no where near the protest that the Viet Nam war generated.. so someone seems to think that what Dubya did fell within the bounds of his office..

what rules and regulations of his executive office did he abrogate or ignore, and how was that not noticed, questioned, or otherwise brought to anyone's attention in the anti-Bush press just dying to find something to make him look bad..or were they too busy covering Britney's custody battle with K-fed and her weight problems?

tell me more..my poor ignorant brain is dying to know how the American governmental system really works..

Like I said, I don't have time to give you private lessons. The world is at your fingertips. Go and learn. There are plenty who will assist you when you get beyond your denial stage and lose your arrogance and anger.

Have a nice night.

OldOwl,
You just joined the nutball club. One of the nicer features on this forum is the "ignore" feature. Goodbye.

Bush Nazis-You got a big mouth fence sitter.

Gunny do you agree with Bush Nazis

quote:

Originally posted by patoloco:
OldOwl,
You just joined the nutball club. One of the nicer features on this forum is the "ignore" feature. Goodbye.

Yup. Like the majority of the country. Complacency instead of freedom and burying your head in the sand won't make the truth go away, no matter how deep you go. When people don't understand something they call it a name and hide from it.It's AMAZING how people can be presented with facts and still be in denial. Too bad for you the real world doesn't have an ignore button. It's also interesting how much aggression people will display and still not have the balls to press a poll button. Maybe I should have polled the private security company forums instead.

Yes, you should have, Old Owl..there you would have got the response you wanted in the first place, slavish agreement with your paranoia and belief that the vast governmental conspiracy has flooded the American drinking water with a a complacency virus..

because the vast majoprity of righteous Americans didn't rise up and impeach/overthrow Dubya and his co-conspirators, you think this government is corrupt and undermining the ideals that made the nation great..

sure, I'll buy that..
I'm sure that will sell when you ruin for office to overthorw and expose all of this in 2008

quote:

Originally posted by SULLY1:
Gunny do you agree with Bush Nazis

Don't get me started on the Bush-Nazi thing.....