Despite the negative feelings back home, the Italian government has 3000 troops on the ground in Iraq..This has, naturally pissed off the insurgents..

they kidnapped an Italian journo and held her hostage, making her do the standard plea on video, begging the government to withdraw its soldiers...

after intense negotiations, by an Italian special service guy, she was eventually released... She was spirited away at high speed from her captors and, this' erratic and suspicious' automotive behaviour caught the atention of US Marine forces who opened fire on the vehicle, critically wounding the driver..The special service guy threw himself over the journo to protect her and took the bullets meant for her, dying in the attempt to save her.. She survived with a shrapnel wound to the shoulder...

So? Is this another screw up in inter-ally communication? trigger happy US troops, shooting first/questions later?..
or are the young lads from down on the farm getting stress paranoia and just blasting anything that makes them feel hinky and putting pressure on Dubya with every PR disaster and screw-up?.. How much blue on blue and ' friendly fire ' can the coalition take and the public accept??

glad the lady survived, deeply saddened that the true hero was taken out just inches away from safety..damn ironic and sorry end to his exemplary efforts...

All I,as a dumb ass civilian,can say is that these so-called Italian "intelligence"agents must have left their secret decoder rings at home.
Let's see.They don't notify American command about their route,timetable or plan to get this journalist out.They are in a car with no markings(I'd have had American and Italian flags flying from every spot on the car),they come flying at an American check-point,and wonder why the car got shot up?Are you freaking kidding me?That a-hole security agent was almost looking to get slaughtered.Were those in charge of this fiasco insane or stupid?Or maybe they read too many James Bond books.
Driving an unmarked car,straight into an American patrol,no visible signs of who they were or what they were doing and America is supposed to apologize?
If I was commanding the US unit that did the shooting,I would say my troops showed remarkable restraint in that only one person got killed.
Italian intelligence.What an oxymoron.
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Wounded Reporter Recalls Ordeal
Associated Press
March 6, 2005

ROME - The freed Italian hostage wounded by American troops at a checkpoint in Baghdad shortly after her release said in an article Sunday that her Iraqi captors had warned her U.S. forces "might intervene."

Giuliana Sgrena, who writes for the communist newspaper Il Manifesto, described how she was wounded and Italian intelligence officer Nicola Calipari was killed as she was celebrating her freedom on the way to the airport. The shooting Friday has fueled anti-American sentiment in a country where people are deeply opposed to U.S. policy in Iraq.

"I remember only fire," she said in her article. "At that point a rain of fire and bullets came at us, forever silencing the happy voices from a few minutes earlier."

Sgrena said the driver began shouting that they were Italian, then "Nicola Calipari dove on top of me to protect me and immediately, and I mean immediately, I felt his last breath as he died on me."

Suddenly, she said, she remembered her captors' warning her "to be careful because the Americans don't want you to return."




The U.S. military said the Americans used hand and arm signals, flashing white lights and fired warning shots to get the car to stop. But in an interview Saturday with Italian La 7 TV, Sgrena said "there was no bright light, no signal." She said the car was traveling at "regular speed."

Italian military officials said two other agents were wounded, but U.S. officials said it was only one. The agent who was killed, Calipari, had led negotiations for the journalist's release.

Sgrena returned to Rome on Saturday morning, looking haggard and with a blanket wrapped around her shoulders. She walked unsteadily and was hooked up to an intravenous drip following surgery to remove shrapnel from her shoulder.

She was taken to a Rome military hospital, where she later met with Calipari's wife, the Italian news agency Apcom said.

In her article, Sgrena wrote that her captors warned her as she was about to be released not to signal her presence to anyone, because "the Americans might intervene."

It was the happiest and also the most dangerous moment," Sgrena wrote. "If we had run into someone, meaning American troops, there would have been an exchange of fire, and my captors were ready and they would have responded."

Sgrena said her captors then blindfolded her and drove her to a location, where they made her get out of the car.

That's when she first heard Calipari's voice, she said.

"Don't worry, you're free," he told her.

Neither Italian nor U.S. officials gave details about how Sgrena managed to gain her freedom after a month in the hands of Iraqi insurgents.

An Iraqi lawmaker, Youdaam Youssef Kanna, told Belgian state TV Saturday evening that he had "nonofficial" information a $1 million ransom was paid for Sgrena's release, Apcom reported from Brussels.

The shooting came as a new blow to the center-right government of Premier Silvio Berlusconi, a strong ally of President Bush, who has assured him the shooting would be investigated. Tens of thousands of Italians regularly demonstrated against the Iraq war, and the Italian left - including Sgrena's newspaper - vigorously opposed the conflict.

Berlusconi, President Carlo Azeglio Ciampi and Il Manifesto director Gabriele Polo joined Calipari's family at Rome's Ciampino Airport late Saturday before the agent's body was flown in shortly before midnight.

The coffin with Calipari's body was carried out of the military plane wrapped in an Italian flag and blessed by a military priest and the agent's brother, a priest who serves on a Vatican advisory body. Calipari's wife, mother and two children were also present.

The coffin was loaded onto a hearse and taken to the coroner's office in Rome. An autopsy began on Sunday, according to news reports. The body was expected to lie in state at Rome's Vittoriano monument, and a state funeral was planned for Monday.

Ciampi said he would award Calipari with the gold medal of valor for his heroism.

"What happened yesterday in Baghdad was a homicide," Polo told Apcom.

"The Americans must be firmly reminded to respect human and civil rules," the ANSA news agency quoted Mirko Tremaglia, minister for Italians abroad, as saying.

Sgrena was abducted Feb. 4 by gunmen who blocked her car outside Baghdad University. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ A freaking communist saying she was "warned ","America was out to get her"
What a bunch of cowcrap.Too bad they didn't put one between her eyes.Of course she's brainless so no damage would have been done.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: nvr-btdt,

U.S.: 'Absurd'
to think troops targeted Italian
Wounded reporter suggests shooting in Iraq was deliberate
MSNBC News Services
Updated: 11:45 a.m. ET March 7, 2005WASHINGTON - The White House on Monday said it was “absurd” for an Italian journalist to charge that U.S. military forces may have deliberately targeted her car as she was being escorted by Italian agents who had just negotiated her freedom from hostage-takers.

White House press secretary Scott McClellan said the car carrying Giuliana Sgrena was traveling on one of the most dangerous roads in Iraq on Friday when it was fired upon. An Italian intelligence officer in the car was shot and killed.

Responding to Sgrena’s statement that the car may have been deliberately targeted, McClellan said. “It’s absurd to make any such suggestion, that our men and women in uniform would deliberately target innocent citizens."

“That’s just absurd,” McClellan repeated.

He said the airport road “has been a place where suicide car bombers have launched attacks. It’s been a place where regime elements have fired upon coalition forces. It is a dangerous road and it is a combat zone that our coalition forces are in. Oftentimes, they have to make split second decisions to protect their own security.”

“And we regret this incident,” McClellan added. “We are going to fully investigate what exactly occurred.”
Sgrena — who works for the communist newspaper Il Manifesto, a fierce opponent of the war and a frequent critic of U.S. policy — said it was possible they were targeted deliberately because the United States opposes Italy’s policy of negotiating with kidnappers.

In an interview published Monday in the Corriere della Sera newspaper, she said she doesn’t know what led to the attack.

“I believe, but it’s only a hypothesis, that the happy ending to the negotiations must have been irksome,” she said. “The Americans are against this type of operation. For them, war is war, human life doesn’t count for much.”

In separate remarks Sunday, she said that “the fact that the Americans don’t want negotiations to free the hostages is known.”

“The fact that they do everything to prevent the adoption of this practice to save the lives of people held hostage, everybody knows that,” she added, speaking to Sky TG24 television by telephone from his hospital bed, where she is recovering from a shrapnel wound. “So I don’t see why I should rule out that I could have been the target."
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This ditzy communist reporter changes her story more often than I change underwear.Now she thinks that she is such an important person that US Marines would "target"her.The more she talks the better it is for the US.The world can see for themselves what an arrogant communist she is.
And a state funeral for that asshole intelligence officer.He screwed up so badly,he's lucky he was killed.This way the Italian government gets to proclaim him a hero in death instead of a screw-up in life.
I wonder how much money the Italian govt. paid for her release.Whatever it was they paid too much.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: nvr-btdt,

Hmmm, lets see, successfully negotiate for the release of of a hostage by whatever means, (paying the ransom) and in the act of returning the hostage to freedom, approach a highly visible military chackpoint in a known dangerous area, imitating a suicide car bomb attack?

It is doubtfull that the Marines at the checkpoint knew any allies were even on the road, much less in that particular vehicle.

I have never thought much of having the Italians as allies during a time of war, and this incident just enforces that thought process with me. It also enforces the thought that our forces located in Europe need to be relocated to a more suitable location in countries more in tune with the realities of todays world. Countries such as Germany, France and Italy just don't get it.

She works for a communist newspaper and communists are not well known for telling the truth. The troops had only three seconds to decide what to do – I would have shot and anyone who would not shoot does not belong in a combat zone.

I cannot believe what the Italian government is saying about the incident. They must be trying to stop the populace from thinking that they ran a stupid operation.

Reminds me about the reporters in Bagdad hoisting up a large video camera up onto thier shoulder, and presenting the sight picture of someone preparing to launch an RPG or Stinger missle. And naturally getting shot in the process.

Should there be a list of things not to do or appear to be doing while in the zone? How about we get started on creating one?

Gunny:
not that I want to start a slagging match [ yeah right ]..but, American troops in theatre have been accused of opening up on many of their allies, including the Brits, simply because they didn't recognize their attire/ vehicles [WTF??][ Seems they offed a Bulgarian trooper whose uniform was British design, shot at a number of Brits patrols - who have been ordered now to slow to a crawl and if fired on for no apparent reason to wave a Union Jack and shout - in English - we're British you Yankee b**tards..maybe they have to go back to wearing Redcoats.. or shout out in Spanish, instead -
..Seems the training in IFF is a bit lacking.. do they just show them flash cards of silhouettes?
INS: This one?
Recruits: Ours
INS: response?
recruits: let pass
INS: This one?
recruits: not ours
INS: response?
Recruits: Blast to shit..

Yep,that about covers it.
Ever hear of a radio?Have the frequencies of your Allies BEFORE you start patrol?
Enforce your tactical area of responsibility,so there are less blue on blue incidents.
In war there will always be cases of accidental /mistaken firefights.Nature of the beast.
And damn Rocketeer,you are really becoming the site curmudgeon.Keep up the good work.

General Refutes Iraq Shooting Info
Associated Press
March 9, 2005

WASHINGTON - The top U.S. general in Iraq said Tuesday he has no indication that Italian officials gave advance notice of the route of a vehicle U.S. soldiers fired on last Friday, killing an Italian intelligence officer and wounding a rescued Italian journalist.

"I personally do not have any indication of that, even on a preliminary basis," Army Gen. George Casey told reporters at the Pentagon. He stressed that another officer, Brig. Gen. Peter Vangjel, is heading the investigation, which is expected to be carried out jointly with Italian officials.

Offering his assessment of the insurgency in Iraq, Casey said the level of violence has dropped significantly since the Jan. 30 elections, although he cautioned that the insurgency tends to "ebb and flow."

"Last week was the lowest level of attacks since April," Casey said. "As I said, they still retain the capability to do damage and to do violence in the Sunni areas of the country." He said he thinks U.S. and U.S.-trained Iraqi forces are getting closer to victory.

"But, I mean, as you know, defeating insurgencies takes time," he said. "The average counterinsurgency in the 20th century was about nine years, so it takes time to snuff out the insurgency."




Casey, who was in Washington for meetings at the Pentagon and on Capitol Hill, said the investigation into last Friday's shooting of the Italians could be completed in three to four weeks.

Vangjel, the one-star general who is leading the probe, is commander of all Army artillery in Iraq and arrived in the country in January from his home base at Fort Bragg, N.C.

One of the key unanswered questions is what, if anything, the Italians told the Americans beforehand about the convoy's movement to Baghdad International Airport.

Casey said he is not personally familiar with all the details of what may have led to the shooting. When asked if he would expect to be told if there were indications the Italians had informed U.S. forces in advance of the convoy's route, he replied, "I would hope so."

Italian intelligence officer Nicola Calipari was killed Friday when U.S. troops at a checkpoint fired at the car carrying him and freed Italian journalist Giuliana Sgrena to the airport after Sgrena's release from a month in captivity.

Casey declined to say what kind of charges might be brought against any U.S. troops involved.

"We are working closely with the Italians on their participation in the investigation," Casey said.

At another point, in response to questions about whether he had known the Italians were negotiating for Sgrena's release, Casey said, "I don't have any information about the Italians coming in here to do something with respect to the hostage."

Casey also said that in light of the Italian incident, which happened just a few days after a Bulgarian soldier was killed in a possible friendly fire incident, he has asked his subordinate commanders to review all incidents at checkpoints across the country over the last six months "to see what we can draw from those to help us" avoid future mistakes. This review will be separate from the investigation of the Italian incident.

In a statement released last Friday after the shooting, the U.S. 3rd Infantry Division, which controls Baghdad, said the vehicle was "traveling at high speeds" and "refused to stop at a checkpoint."

A U.S. patrol "attempted to warn the driver to stop by hand and arm signals, flashing white lights, and firing warning shots in front of the car," it said. "When the driver didn't stop, the soldiers shot into the engine block which stopped the vehicle, killing one and wounding two others."

Italian officials have disputed the U.S. assertion that the vehicle was traveling quickly, and they have challenged other aspects of the official U.S. explanation of what happened.

Casey also said he was concerned by the fact that in addition to the killing of the Italian intelligence officer, a Bulgarian soldier slain last week in Iraq also may have been hit by U.S. gunfire.

"It's another unfortunate incident," he said. "Again, both the Bulgarians and us are looking into exactly what happened up during that period, and we'll get to the bottom of it."
************************************************************************************************************************************************
Accidents and tragedies happen.Even in war.
The General said it right."We'll get to the bottom of it".And we will.

curmudgeon!!!

I like that..maybe I'll get some cards printed up...

Rocketeer wrote:

quote:

How much blue on blue and ' friendly fire ' can the coalition take and the public accept??

HarryP wrote:

quote:

She works for a communist newspaper and communists are not well known for telling the truth.

Sounds more like 'Blue on Pink'...

Rocketter a

quote:

curmudgeon

???

Sounds mightly 'irascible' for a 'Northerner'...

Back in the days when I was a serious ' student ' [ yeah, we used chalk on a slate board ]
I had some business cards which read:

Cad[wallader] Bounder,B.A.
Charletan and Mountebank

stopped using them as no one knew what the feck it meant..

no one speaks English anymore...

we are on the same side of this discussion. Ain't nothing friendly about friendly fire. I'm thinking that only drastic changes about how we all function as a combined coalition force.
My initial thoughts on possible changes:
a) issue all troops the same uniform
b) issue all commands the same comm equipment
c) embed within the forces a member of each countries military into each unit.

just some idle thoughts that won't happen

All good ideas Gunny - which just about guarantees we won't see them.

Another thought is that with all this "Secret Squirrel" stuff, it is often impossible to let the left hand know what the right hand is doing.

Plus, Italian intelligence had a hand in the phoney yellowcake documents that embarrassed us earlier. Not saying that has anything to do with this situ but we're still dealing with Italians and they don't neccessarily view the world as we do.

Details are still surfacing. We'll probably never know all the elements of this one.

quote:

Originally posted by Rocketeer:
Back in the days when I was a serious ' student ' [ yeah, we used chalk on a slate board ]
I had some business cards which read:

Cad[wallader] Bounder,B.A.
Charletan and Mountebank

stopped using them as no one knew what the feck it meant..

no one speaks English anymore...

So true Rocketeer.If it's more than one syllable most people can't use the word.By the way,you sent me for the dictionary with the word "desultry".
This Labatt is for you!

I sir, am a cad, a bounder and a blackguard. Since I am the real deal I see no need to carry a card.

Plus, we no longer speak English. We speak 'Merican. This is an endlessly inventive language and the object is to take off as many syllables as possible and still be understood.

You Canucks are a proud lot but without us you wouldn't have 'ain't'.