Okay, first off, I am a noob here, so HI!

Anyway, here is the issue I am having. I am currently stationed in Afghanistan and in the worst part too, Bagram. I know I know.....never gets attacked, yeah, but it is the "political capital". Anyway, a FRAGO just came out since ISAF took over, that we have to wear the ISAF patch on our right arm. Yeah, the combat patch side. I currently wear my patch from 3rd ID when I was in Iraq from Jan-Nov 2003. They are saying that everyone has to wear this thing in place of our combat patch and I am not sure how "legal" this is. I checked 670-1 and the additions that cover the newer ACUs. Nothing says anything really. It says that we are authorized to wear our combat patch or nothing as you so choose. But my question is, how can someone require the wear of a non-Army patch at all? Is there a reg I am missing?

This thing isn't even a real patch and to be honest, I refuse to remove my 3rd ID patch for this thing. I don't want to come across as a crapbag, but I have a lot of pride in my combat patch and to remove it, especially for something that's not even a real patch, well it's disheartening. I am posting a pic of the patch too, just so you guys can see it and how silly it is.

I plan on fighting this tooth and nail and my 1SG isn't a fan either, neither are many Soldiers who have an emotional attachment to their actual combat patches. I am sure some people here will just say "hey the command says so" but I also know others will understand how much a certain patch can mean to a Soldier.

Here is the "patch":


I am dead serious, can the command actually make us wear this thing? Does anyone know of any regs that govern the FWS-SSI? It doesn't seem right to me.

Thanks for your time.

Jim

JIM Welcome to the site! As for the regs involved with weearing of this particular patch? This is something you should take your cue from your leadership. If the CO shows up wearing his in place of his combat patch, then you probably should have yours in that same place as well.

I realize it is a sore point and all that, but if a simple patch brings the different forces together while in ocuntry, then thats a good thing. At least it doesn't have a bullseye on it!

Appendix F
Shoulder Sleeve Insignia–Former Wartime Service (SSI–FWTS)
F–1. Applicability.
This guidance applies to soldiers of all components (Active, ARNG and USAR) that deploy during periods of service
designated for wear of the SSI–FWTS, in accordance with paragraph 28–17.
F–2. General.
a. There is no time-in-theater requirement to be authorized to wear the SSI–FWTS.
b. A deployed unit that is authorized to wear an SSI in its own right (or an organic component thereof), in
accordance with para 28–16, will wear that unit’s SSI as the SSI–FWTS. This is true regardless of whether the
headquarters element deploys, and regardless of the number of changes to the unit’s alignment or operational control
(OPCON) during the period of deployment.
c. When a unit not entitled to its own SSI deploys, the OPCON relationship prior to deployment is terminated, and a
new OPCON relationship is established. Members of these units will wear the SSI of the lowest echelon deployed unit
entitled to an SSI in each of their new deployed chains of command as their SSI–FWTS.
d. When there is no intermediate unit that has its own SSI in the deployed chain of command, members of units not
entitled to their own SSI will wear the SSI of the senior Army command in the theater as their SSI–FWTS.
e. Soldiers who are cross-leveled, assigned, attached, or augmenting deployed units, and soldiers who are TDY on
orders through the use of DD Form 1610 (Request and Authorization for TDY Travel of DOD Personnel) will wear the
same SSI–FWTS worn by members of the deployed unit(s) to which attached or OPCON. This does not apply to
members of Trial Defense and CIDC, who will wear the SSI of their respective commands as their SSI–FWTS.
f. Soldiers authorized to wear more than one SSI–FWTS may choose which SSI–FWTS they wear. Soldiers also
may elect not to wear the SSI–FWTS.
g. Precedence was established in Vietnam for elements organic to, or an integral part of an organization to wear the
organizational SSI as their SSI–FWTS.
AR 670–1 • 3 February 2005


**By regs, you wear your unit's patch. If you are awarded more than one, you can choose.**
Hope this helps.

Scouts Out.

quote:

Originally posted by thegunny:
JIM Welcome to the site! As for the regs involved with weearing of this particular patch? This is something you should take your cue from your leadership. If the CO shows up wearing his in place of his combat patch, then you probably should have yours in that same place as well.

I realize it is a sore point and all that, but if a simple patch brings the different forces together while in ocuntry, then thats a good thing. At least it doesn't have a bullseye on it!

thanks for the replies guys.

See here is the thing I am confused about regarding this patch and its wear. If we fall under ISAF now, well that is fine. Shouldn't it then be worn on our left sleeve denoting my current unit? The way I see it, I never deployed with ISAF and we have no attachment orders. Even if we did, like CavScout pointed out, it is up to the individual to pick which combat patch to wear.

I am really only asking incase there is some reg I am missing. I also want to get an idea of the world of crap I will be in when I basically tell the command NO and I am not wearing it.

jim

Also, my CO is saying that this whole patch thing is a "lawful order" and that it's merely "adding to 670-1". My interpretation is that yes, it is adding to, but it is also taking away, which they cannot do.

jim

If I remember right, as the saying goes in the military, you can add to but you can't take away from. When in doubt, do what the commander says to do. He says wear the patch then wear the patch. Pers. I think it looks like crap.

I agree coachman, it is a bad design! So does ISAF stand for "I Sure Am Fu'd"?

ISAF - International Security Assistance Force

I know! *rolls eyes*

By no means am I the type of Soldier who tries to fight the system all the time. I just really hate that patch and what it stands for. I join the United States Army, my commander is an American general, not some British guy. I am all for team building and all that wonderful stuff, but I don't think any American service memeber should have to wear an international patch or uniform. Now, if they wanted to get technical about it, why wouldn't the silly ISAF patch go on the left sleeve to indicate the unit you currently fall under, not the one of FORMER WARTIME SERVICE.

jim

Here is my only question?

How can an ISAF patch be considered adding to AR 670-1? Not only is it unapproved by the Dept. of Heraldry and Insignia, it isn't a FWTS qualifying patch. It would go on your left sleeve, as it is the current assigned unit. Which brings about duty in the MFO in the Sinai. We wore brassards with the patch, not actually on our uniforms. The only thing different was the ugly orange beret.

i have NO idea how they are making us wear it or who the order even came from. the frago was signed by the BDE CDR, so whatever makes them feel good inside i suppose.

oddly enough, i got a reply back to my question by the Uniform Sergeant Major at DA. she basically sent me a cookie cutter answer, but told me to look at the same reg i was looking at. AR 670-1, section 28-17(IIRC) and Appendix F.

anyway, i stopped trying to fight these people on this issue. just another example of 10th Mtn being one ate up division.

Ahh well, PCS time in less than a year!

jim

Dude, really, get over it. In the 90's they made soldiers wear blue berets, and not the cool dark blue like a NY Yankee uniform, UN/Nato blue, powder blue, in other words, GAY.

One Spc tried to buck the system and tried to take it to courts-martial instead of taking the Art 15 for failure to follow an order, guess what he lost.

You are not in an Army unit, yes you follow a US Army General because we have the best leaders and soldiers in the entire coalition stage, however you are in a coalition unit and 670-1 has less of a meaning. In can be used or not, up to the Commanding Officer, being that it is GEN Mac, you will probably follow 670-1 as close as possible in the coalition environment.

You are only there for a short time, and being a good soldier or leader you had best learn to support your boss and be a good follower, until you are asked what policy should be.

I think its a safe bet that Jim is no longer in that unit considering the dates.

chuckle....yeah probably not there anymore!