I have strong feelings about constitutional rights being slowly eroded away. And its even worse when people make small justifications to take a few rights here and there in hopes no one will notice, and when someone like myself calls another out on it, they laugh and say your crazy hahaha its for your own good ("disipline", "attention to detail") and the whole wire tapping thing. Its all a bunch of BS.

I saw a cartoon on SNL, and yes I understand its a cartoon etc, etc. But I think there was an ironic truth about it: It was called divertor, the news was talking about high gas prices, unemployment, devaluation of the dollar. So the president called upon divertor to have him pull down sinbads pants exposing him in front of a bunch of preschoolers to distract attention away from serious issues which is exactly what happens today. The news is always talking about child molesters and school shootings, I DONT CARE, I care about what the next BS law the government is making up or how they are handling higher education, or the devaluation of the dollar, the last time I checked they weret shooting any gold off into space (like they did with iridium which spiked iridium prices, which was sparked by the publics ignorance toward nuclear materials) so that can only mean a few things, since the dollar is backed by nothing one strong posibility is the value of the dollar is plummeting which explains why the value of gold and all precious metals are going up, but you dont hear much about that in the news.

"So,you would spit on a service member who has a tough job,going to college campuses and trying to make a quota on enlistments?"

Here is another point of it, he is totally distracting from the point, its not about spiting on anyone I have strong feelings about states rights and the constitution in general. It had nothing to do with service members it had to do with anyone who has the arrogance to trample the constitution with impunity, it so happened that the example I was using was military recruiters. And because recruiters have a hard job is no excuse to trample the schools right to have who they want at there carrer fairs

quote:

Originally posted by rppearso:
Firstborn are you even in the military?

No,I never served.
I hold the US Armed Forces in the highest regard
because I didn't have the vaguest notion of words like "Duty,Honor,Country".It was all about ME.Now,as an old man,I live with my selfishness and failure.
Kind of like how you are now.
I blame MYSELF for my failure to serve.
You blame the military because it didn't go your way.You tried,I will give you that as a step up on me,but to rant about wanting to spit because you are so bitter and angry....well,that's just wrong.

love to see you spit on a Marine Recruiter, just to see all the teeth bouncing on the sidewalk.....

Now you back-pedal. You honestly expect anyone to give you an ounce of empathy? You said you would spit on a recruiter that came on your campus. For no other reason than he or she was a recruiter. Don't be a coward, its what you said. You were angry and it spilled out of your mouth, you don't like a recruiter. Its a US Military Recruiter, a service member, so YOU DO have a problem with service members. Spitting on a Service Member is assault as well. So if we beat your ass, which we would, its self-defense. Its the law. You spit on me, its a crime, you assaulted me, I beat you to death, I defended myself from a threat.
You piss and moan about rights. Yet, you only bitch about rights for you. My ability is go to a campus through the Solomon Act, is an opt-in/opt-out program. If you deny a Federal Activity the right to access your campus, you deny ALL Federal Activity on campus. You do not get to pick and choose, I'll take the money, but f*ck all everything else. Thats called equality? Thats greed. I recruit everyday, and listen to this crap. How unconstitutional it is, blah blah blah. The right to form and maintain an Army is a right of this Nation, guaranteed by the Second Continental Congress in 1775 and the Constitution. Seems pretty A-OK to me for the last 220+ years. Don't gripe about privacy violations, because we get public record of who goes to school where. Its public record! Nothing is vague about it. Its all very defined.

A Governor does not deny his units, he gives them up. Did you read what I said? Thats why NG units are picked individually, for their specialty, and their readiness. There is what is called CUI report given to the Governor, Commander's Units of Interest. He looks at what units are manned and trained, to support the Regular Army, and makes his decisions known to the Federal Government, which ones he will give to us. The National Guard gets MORE money if they are Federalized, so does the State. As compensation for allowing us to use their militias. So there is motivation to let them be mobilized. Not prevent it. You need to do a lot more research on this before you attempt to fight it.

"You honestly expect anyone to give you an ounce of empathy?"

Nope it was just an acknolagement that I was out of line in what I said. You can choose to accept the appology or not. Im not back steping in my position just the inapproprate comment. I still strongly disagree with treatment in the military to junior members and recruiting methods.

"So if we beat your ass, which we would, its self-defense. Its the law. You spit on me, its a crime, you assaulted me, I beat you to death, I defended myself from a threat.
You piss and moan about rights. Yet, you only bitch about rights for you."

You obviously know this is not true because it would be an excessive use of force, and in reality I wouldent spit on anyone, I would tell you to get away from me and stop bothering me.

"My ability is go to a campus through the Solomon Act, is an opt-in/opt-out program. If you deny a Federal Activity the right to access your campus, you deny ALL Federal Activity on campus. You do not get to pick and choose, I'll take the money, but f*ck all everything else"

The fact that the military is not an equal opprotunity employer is why they were denied on campus, the military is allowed to discriminate and schools do not agree with it thats what makes it unconstitutional. And because someones informaition is provided to a school for enrolment purposes does not mean its public information, its information for enrollment purposes not military recruiting purposes.

"A Governor does not deny his units, he gives them up. Did you read what I said? Thats why NG units are picked individually, for their specialty, and their readiness. There is what is called CUI report given to the Governor, Commander's Units of Interest. He looks at what units are manned and trained, to support the Regular Army, and makes his decisions known to the Federal Government, which ones he will give to us. The National Guard gets MORE money if they are Federalized, so does the State. As compensation for allowing us to use their militias. So there is motivation to let them be mobilized. Not prevent it. You need to do a lot more research on this before you attempt to fight it."

Thats fine I totally agree with you, my point was the national guard recruits different people than the active duty. Typically gaurds men want to be home with their family, have full time civilian jobs, active in there community, etc, etc and dont typically want to deal with long deployments so when national guard deployments become common you will loose that recruiting base, especailly when you are hostile to your own men because they dont want to deploy that makes someone want to leave even more. You will always have people who want to join active duty, light there hair on fire and shoot people, travel, whatever.

These rights I speak of dont just apply to me (my own "selfish" "selfcentered" rights for myself, I thought I would throw some buzz words in there for cav), but to everyone and its what this country was founded on. And just because the military is the defense does not give it the right to trample the principles that this nation was founded on. Some in the military think they are above civilians (and the law) because they are "defending" who do you think makes anything you use?


Its all about the attitude that the senior members get when someone has even a slight indication of an individual thought. And that is totally up to the military to decide just dont be surprised when people (like myself) dont support your cause. You want to control people like robots and treat them as sub human and expect them to help you out at the same time. Regardless if I can find court presidence of maltreatment in the military, I still dont like being treated like dirt and there are alot of others that feel the same way. The only way 1.5 million can be maintained is through fear, you manipulate them in and use scare tactics to keep them in. It is not truely voulenteer or you could volunteer yourself out as well. I dont have to have a court presidence tell me I was treated like shit in basic and at guard.

quote:

I dont have a problem with service members, I have a problem with arrogant service members who tromp on campus with an arrogant attitude because an unconstitutional law was passed.

Where do you think recruiters come from? And, you don't have a problem with service members, but ---

quote:

Its all about the attitude that the senior members get when someone has even a slight indication of an individual thought. And that is totally up to the military to decide just dont be surprised when people (like myself) dont support your cause. You want to control people like robots and treat them as sub human and expect them to help you out at the same time. Regardless if I can find court presidence of maltreatment in the military, I still dont like being treated like dirt and there are alot of others that feel the same way. The only way 1.5 million can be maintained is through fear, you manipulate them in and use scare tactics to keep them in. It is not truely voulenteer or you could volunteer yourself out as well. I dont have to have a court presidence tell me I was treated like shit in basic and at guard.

The horse is dead, the drum is broke...wah, wah.

"Where do you think recruiters come from? And, you don't have a problem with service members, but ---"

I dont have any problems with regular people like myself, I have a problem with the holier than thou members that are out to make examples of people and lord over others with their position, there is alot of power tripping in the military and the members that partake are the ones I have a problem with.

And the horse is not dead because cav constantly uses arguments that directly relate. I will concede when a valid point is made, but you cant throw buzz words out there and expect me to accept that as a valid explaination.

The problem is the military has no checks and balances. They answer to congress and the president at the general officer level but after that the shit just rolls down hill. You have next to no recourse or representation, unless its an extreme case. There is also no quality control (my case was rare, I was a split op 09S) just because someone signed up does not mean they belong in the military, the outprocessing needs to be made much more streamline, and the signed on the dotted line mentality needs to go away. Then we will see how large our "voluenteer" military really is.

firstborn: I would not feel bad about not having joined you did not miss much. Just because someone is in the military does not make them honorable, someone who cant give basic human respect is themselves subhuman (drill sgts, over zealous hard core by the book members).

You can judge most of someones character by the way they treat people that they dont have to treat nice, (ie the sgt that has to bite his toung to make a suggestion to an officer where as if it were a private he would rip his head off) is that someone who is honorable? nope, not at all.

You have no clue what you're talking about. I spent 22 years in and met very few power-tripping ego maniacs. Just about as many as...in the civilian world. You make it sound as if the majority of the people in the military are like this. There are checks and balances- Requesting Mast is one way in the USMC (I'm pretty sure the US Army has an equivalent). There are methods of whistle blowing, lodging complaints, etc. I went through three congressional inquiries because people did bring redress against the training system in the USMC.

quote:

You can judge most of someones character by the way they treat people that they dont have to treat nice

Yeah, well I was an interrogator. Most people I dealt with were not handled very nicely. Guess that makes me dishonorable....

Guns.....yer wasting perfectly good oxygen on this one.

"Yeah, well I was an interrogator. Most people I dealt with were not handled very nicely. Guess that makes me dishonorable...."

I would say it does make you dishonorable, because in an interogation you are trying to establish guilt, key word trying. They (in most cases) have not been proven guilty yet, so your actions are out of line. And even if they had been proven guilty, a judge will hand out a punishment and thats it. When you take the aggression that extra step because you are in a position to do so and for the most part get away with it, that is dishonorable.

Trying to dig up exteme cases that attempt to rationalize abuse of power still boil down to just an abuse of power. It just makes it even worse when you abuse your power on thoes that are on the same side (ie privates and sgts as opposed to the officer and the toung bitting sgt).

gunny: I bring up alot of good points they just go against your way of thinking.

Is it really honorable to rip a private a new asshole with crazy yelling and aggressive speech and turn around and talk calmly and clearly to an officer. Nope that tells me that you are just covering your own ass because there are consequences for disrespect to an officer but the private is subhuman he can be disrespected without consequence. How is this senario in any way honorable, and this senario is the standard at basic.

quote:

Originally posted by thegunny:
Guns.....yer wasting perfectly good oxygen on this one.

yer right....this guys knows about EVERYTHING...

Is it really honorable to rip a private a new asshole with crazy yelling and aggressive speech and turn around and talk calmly and clearly to an officer.

How is this scenario not dishonrable. It is the sgt covering his own ass.

Privates ain't sub-human. Privates just need motivating and discipline in regular doses. This is one reason for a Private to get himself or herself promoted. Its called incentive......

Or is this concept too great or hard to understand?

Why the different treatment?

Privates -> sgts -> officers

You dont see a sgt chewing out an officer everyday.

quote:

Why the different treatment?

Like in the civilian world, there are leaders and there are followers. Most CEO's didn't wake up one morning and say, "I'm going to be a CEO today" and just put on a suit and walk into a big business and declare themselves CEO's. Seniority works everywhere, get used to it. Move out of your mom's basement, get a job, start paying your own bills and get a taste of the real world.

quote:

You dont see a sgt chewing out an officer everyday.

But I've seen a chief cut a butter bar a notch or 2. It's not a Sgt's place to chew out an officer. There is this thing called a chain of command. In the civilian world, you start out at the bottom, whether its the bottom of the college grad job market, or the bottom of the GED job market. You start out at the bottom. This means, you get the shitty tasks, you get to work overtime while that guy who has been there for 20 years gets to go home. This means you get the bottom of the pay band for your job. Stay around long enough in a job instead of giving up, you'll get raises and promotions, and then one day you can be the CEO barking orders to the young zitty faced college grad. Wow! What a concept!