gunny --I hate to tell you but you are talking to a box of Rocks.

You can think im stupid but I bet if you asked around your ship/shore duty or whatever I bet you can find at least a few if not many people that dont really want to be there and are only there because they "signed on the dotted line". Now when shit hits the fan do you really want someone there that will cover there own butt and not yours because they could care less about "the cause", or even flat out run away. You can throw all kinds of buzz words out there, AWOL, desertion that sensationalize what happened, but the bottem line is it could get your ass killed, what the hell does AWOL matter if your dead. Someone who is being held against there will is not going to be the most cooperative, are prisoners cooperative? They may do the bare minimum to keep negitive attention off of them, but there not going to risk there necks for the prison guards.

I know 2 prior service members from the navy and army that were that way and dredged through there contract because there were to affraid of the "OTH", but if shit hits the fan an OTH is better than being dead.

Yeah, you would know rrpearso. I remember you risking your ass in the Iraqi desert, the Kuwaiti oil fields, the jungles of An Loc and Arizona Valley, the Ardennes, Iwo Jima, Guadalcanal. You know nothing of selfless service. Everyone looks out for number one first, your buddy second. Thats human nature. That self-sacrifice, that you would risk your neck for a comrade, is a concept you are too dumb to understand. There aren't atheists in fox-holes and quitters when your life is actually on the line. We KNOW you can die working here. You can die tomorrow by a drunk driver, too. Drunk drivers kill more people a year than the war, so whats more deadly? (Oh, wait, you can't protest drunk drivers, its not trendy).
Maybe because I'm not a coward, I'll take an Honorable death serving my fellow man, and the Nation that gave me everything. It never occured to you, we may not believe in the cause either, but we obey and watch our buddy's back, because it is the right thing to do. I rather die fighting with my buddies, than live forever knowing I ran away and left them all hanging.

Umm...this is getting out of hand...one question and soon its a boxing match.

For the record, I respect both your views, and thanks for the input.

Recently I decided what to do.

It all started with a trip down to my local recruiter....

next thing I know im taking the ASVAB.

I got my score back (63, the recruiter said that was really good...is it?)

And now im going to basic this summer to become a Paramedic or MP (I can't decide )

(Btw im joining the reserves. After six months if I like enough ill go active.)

So thanks for all your help guys!

quote:

Originally posted by CavScout19D30:
Yeah, you would know rrpearso. I remember you risking your ass in the Iraqi desert, the Kuwaiti oil fields, the jungles of An Loc and Arizona Valley, the Ardennes, Iwo Jima, Guadalcanal. You know nothing of selfless service. Everyone looks out for number one first, your buddy second. Thats human nature. That self-sacrifice, that you would risk your neck for a comrade, is a concept you are too dumb to understand. There aren't atheists in fox-holes and quitters when your life is actually on the line. We KNOW you can die working here. You can die tomorrow by a drunk driver, too. Drunk drivers kill more people a year than the war, so whats more deadly? (Oh, wait, you can't protest drunk drivers, its not trendy).
Maybe because I'm not a coward, I'll take an Honorable death serving my fellow man, and the Nation that gave me everything. It never occured to you, we may not believe in the cause either, but we obey and watch our buddy's back, because it is the right thing to do. I rather die fighting with my buddies, than live forever knowing I ran away and left them all hanging.

Grrrrr, grunt, bark!

oneofthelost: that was a wise choise, that way it gives YOU the choise.

Cav: when you are being held against your will the people you are around are not your buddies.

quote:

I bet you can find at least a few if not many people that dont really want to be there and are only there because they "signed on the dotted line".

Maybe they should think of that before the sign. Regardless if they want to be there or not, they dont want to get killed, and I would imagine they dont want their fellow soldiers/Marines/airmen/sailors to get killed.

Thats a point that alot of people miss, just because someone signed up does not mean that the military is the right fit for them and if they cant hack it or wont hack it they need to be sent home, not forced to stay in because the military is hurting for numbers and the military is hurting for recruits or else they would not have to employ these kinds of tactics to force people to stay in as well as calling up people from inactive reserves. You can give what ever excuse you need to make you feel warm and fuzzy but if they were not hurting they would not need to be doing crap like that at all (stop loss, inactive call up, forcing enlistees to stay in, national guard call ups, etc)

I just had another friend of a friend that tried to transfer from texas national guard to alaska for a job and they said she couldent go. So I told my friend to tell her to walk away. One weekend a month is not a living wage and with all of the federalization of the guard its not worth it, its like being on call to be chewed up and spit out by the military, they only have to pay you while your active then send you home and kick you to the curve, F that. But of course im way off base right? becasue there responsible enough to go somewhere where they can make a living and support their family even though the one weekend a month employer said they cant go. So I guess they better stay becasue "disipline" and "attention to detail" these are the army values, oh you cant support your family, thats too bad, but you better be here your one weekend even if your kids are starving so the capt can look good because everyone is accounted for.

Friend of a friend? So, more hearsay. How about definitive fact. How can the Texas National Guard, justify the loss of one of their soldiers to the Alaskan National Guard? There has to be a slot in one of their units available for her, for which she is MOS qualified, and it is still up to the the STATE Adjutant General. That is not a military issue as you like to paint it. Its a National Guard issue. If it is for civilian employment, they have no way to stop her, PERIOD. It is impossible for the commander to stop it. Thats a pure BS story, hold your watches up boys. For the last time, get it through your head, the National Guard is not the military. Its a state militia remember?! You cried it, here it is, biting you in the six. Blame your Governor and your NG unit, not the military. They aren't governed by DoD, so it is comparing apples to dogs. Not even close to the same sport, let alone ballpark. Whatever comparison you want to make. You still don't understand anything you've been told. And if we are hurting so bad for recruits, as you say, why are enlistment numbers up 28% from last year thus far? Why is retention at the highest it has ever been in the history of the U.S. Armed Forces? If you want Active Duty pay and benefits, why would you join the Guard or Reserves? If you didn't want to deploy, be Federalized, or uphold your commitment, why would you join? It was all there in black and white. You signed, but now you regret it? You don't get buyer's remorse here. If anything, the military paid for you in full, and is rightfully due their return for their investment. Business Ethics 101. They pay you, not vice versa. So, a $125,000 training investment in you, with zero return is okay? Even though you agreed to follow a specific set of guidelines, rules, standards of conduct, regulations, and protocol, for a set amount of time, in a contract, for a certain amount of money?

You still never answered the basic question, if recruitment is so good why is there a need to activate guard and reserves units and call up people who have been out of the army for years, like I said before people can claim all kinds of things but if you just look at what is happening its clear that they cant reach the numbers they need in the active duty military to sustain this war or they would have no need to activate guard and reserves units.

The national guard is suppost to be a state support militia but times have changed and now they are there to activate when the military cant meet numbers or doesnt want to adaquatly compensate them, like equal pay to my civilian pay when deployed plus all the hazard stuff I think that would be a fair trade to have to leave home for ludicrus amounts of time and also not have to pay taxes on it because you are not working in the US.

The Reserves carry more Service Support, Combat Support roles. They can meet the needs of the Army. There are 33 Combat Brigades in the Army, most of them on their second tours in Iraq, Horn of Africa, Kuwait, Afghanistan, etc. The National Guard is barely deployed in any grand manner. So even if 15 of their BCTs deploy, it is not a matter of recruitment. If you are recruited, join right now, you won't be combat deployable for a year+. Recruits are in the pipeline, and will be ready when they are trained. Sustain the war? Whatever. We can quadruple our losses per day and sustain this fight for a two decades. State support? militia? No, a State sponsored militia is the correct terminology. Reserve units have NO combat arms units. NONE. The Nat'l Guard does. We need to give the Active Duty units a break, so they can be with THEIR families, enjoy the fruits of their labor, spend their hard-earned money, and some NG units and USAR can relieve them? Good, way to be team players. Its what you signed up for. There you go, here's your chance to earn the title of Soldier. So, because we are Active Duty, our lives don't matter to you? Your precious civilian life is somehow more important, more worthy? Thats pure selfishness, and asinine. You are more replaceable than a soldier, any given day of the week, twice on Sunday.
Equal to your civlian pay?? Vote for a military pay increase next term. Voters and Congress govern that, so get off the high horse like it's our fault. Compensation? Professionals do get Salary Compensation Offset. We also don't pay for healthcare, are compensated for housing, subsistence, special duties, hardship tours, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by rrpearso:

...and also not have to pay taxes on it because you are not working in the US.

We do not pay taxes in Combat Zones. Do your homework. Working on an established military installation,U.S. Embassy, U.S. anything constitutes U.S. soil, and thus you will pay taxes. People assigned to non-combat areas, i.e. 99.99% of Kuwait, are not in COMBAT, and therefore exempt from Combat Zone Tax Exclusion. To me, the verbage is self-explanatory.

Its a matter of personal opinion as to whose life is worth more, I personally think everyones life is priceless, no one is worth more than another as far as there life. The money you make is a seperate issue, but I believe everyone is to be respected as a human being regardless of your job. So the active military is too stressed to have regualar rotations within the active duty so they have to dip into the reserves and guard, that does not sound like a force that can maintain for 2 more decades.

People now know that joining the gaurd gets you back door drafted so naturally the guard is experenceing difficulty in recruiting.

People that wanted to help out there state in a natural disaster or the off chance we were invaded but who wanted to be home with there familys until such an occasion came up can no longer join because they run the risk of being called up to every pissing match the US has with the rest of the world. They wanted to make a difference in there community not sent to iraq for 12,18, or 24 months. People joined the guard and active for different reasons. The active duty might not suffer in recruiting because you will always have people that want a licence to kill or travel, etc, etc.

But with the guard, people usually have familys and civilian jobs and it can destroy someones life to be deployed for 24 months thats a long time for someone who signed up for one weekend a month or a few weeks or a month (a month to help out your state is alot different that 24 overseas) to help out in an avalanche, riot whatever. So the guard suffers the losses because its not worth it to possibly loose your family or your job to sit in a fox hole in iraq for 24 months when you signed up to help your state.

But your right "you signed on the dotted line maggot" as your talking to someone with a family and a job, so you can imagine guard recruiting is suffering as it should and I discourage everyone I can from joining. Because its not about being a team player the guard and active are 2 different entities or at least suppost to be, if I wanted to be deployed I would have joined active duty.

I almost wish I were still in college so I could spit on a recruiter when they force there way on campus through the soloman act.

so your a spitter huh?

The soloman act is an act that allows the federal government to circumvent the constitution through funding. Oh you dont like our unconstitutional rules then dont take the money even though that money comes from the tax payer. It is unethical I would say evil to use public money to support your own special interest unconstituional policies (here we will give you back your own money but you have to let us chip away your rights). And recruiters who try to enforce the act like its a god given right (you better let us in because the soloman act says so deserve to be spat on), I would say are evil. They come in to the school with an arrogant attitude, while they are trampling the constitution.

"The money comes from the tax payer"-- that would be the US government's money, then. Wouldn't it? The they have the right to put conditions on that money when they give it out. One of those conditions is to support a US government activity- Recruiting for the armed forces. You take the loan, you abide by the conditions. Colombia bitches at us every year that we put conditions on counternarcotics funding. Guess what- IT'S OUR MONEY. The US can put conditions on it.

quote:

Originally posted by rppearso:
I almost wish I were still in college so I could spit on a recruiter when they force there way on campus through the soloman act.

So,you would spit on a service member who has a tough job,going to college campuses and trying to make a quota on enlistments?
Muddafugga,you are one step BELOW a child molester.

TOWGUNNER,if I'm outta line disregard,but I think this punk needs to be banned.I am all for free speech,but when it comes to spitting (or wanting/threatening to) on service members this nutwad needs to go.
Why don't you march down to the local recruiters office and try spitting there?I'm sure you will be shown the error of your ways,up close and personal.You silly little boy.

It would help to know what the Solomon Act allows. It allows recruiters the exact SAME access to colleges and universities as civilian employers. Thank you for painting the vivid picture of how dumb you are, again. Unconstitutional? To allow the military the right to employ people equally with their civilian counterparts? You are a hypocrite, Mr. EEOC. Mr. Don't Violate My Rights.

You can spit on me. No problem. I'm a proud soldier, proud of my Nation, proud of my service. My sacrifice lets you do that. But I am also a human being. So, if you spit on me, expect to reap what you sow. You're martial arts and power lifting still won't save you either.

Oh, and just to ask you to pull your head out of your arse. You find one National Guardsmen that was deployed for 18-24 months, involuntarily. And second, your state's Governor gives the Active Component your NG units. Gives them up. Asks the Active side to use his militia to assist. We don't just take them.

I had originally pegged him as a swallower...

Ok let me clairify, I dont have a problem with service members, I have a problem with arrogant service members who tromp on campus with an arrogant attitude because an unconstitutional law was passed. So dont think you are a maurder when you come on campus to recruit because the university if forced to let you recruit there and your not respected, and thats even worse in high schools. The government can put stipulations on government money but when thoes stipulations become unconstitutional thats a problem thoes stipulations are no longer valid, its basicly striping away states rights through funding (drinking ages, etc). I know that the civilian counterparts are allowed on campus, thats because the university wants them on campus not because they are forced to let them on campus. It should be an opt in rather than an opt out, its unethical to make someones private information known without there permission not vise versa.

I appologize the spit comment was out of line and unnessisary. I often tend towards extremes but it sometimes puts me out of line.

But if you want to attack someone because there disrespectful its still assult. I have no problem with the military mission or most military members, its the few that make it bad for everyone else and hide under buzz words and vauge blanket regualtions. Oh he had dust in his wall locker thats why he is scrubbing the floor with a tooth brush, im teaching him "attention to detail" total BS, he is hazing him with impunity and using a vauge broad reason to do it and the military accepts that reason. Alot of recruiters blow sunshine up you rear, which is the same thing as lieing. They dont tell you that you are going to be hazed and treated subhuman until they get above E4, and even then I dont know if E5s get a tone of respect.

Firstborn are you even in the military?

Can the governor of a state deny the active duty his guard members without fear of losing some kind of government money etc. Probably not, what else would motivate the governor to give his guard units up. The problem is that will only happen for so long before very few are willing to join the gaurd.