FORT KNOX, Ky. -- The recruits of Echo Company stumbled off the bus for basic training at Fort Knox to the screams of red-faced drill instructors. That much was expected. But it got worse from there.

Echo Company's top drill instructor seized a recruit by the back of the neck and threw him to the ground. Other soldiers were poked, grabbed or cursed.

Once inside the barracks, Pvt. Jason Steenberger says, he was struck in the chest by the top D.I. and kicked "like a football." Andrew Soper, who has since left the Army, says he was slapped and punched in the chest by another drill instructor. Pvt. Adam Roster says he was hit in the back and slammed into a wall locker.

Eventually, four Army drill instructors and the company commander would be brought up on charges. Four have been convicted so far.

The tough-as-nails D.I. who berates and intimidates recruits with remarkably creative profanity is a familiar figure to generations of men who went through the Army or the Marines, and a stock character in the movies _ "Full Metal Jacket" and "An Officer and a Gentleman," among them. The idea is to break the recruit down, instill discipline and make him a well-trained part of a cohesive fighting unit.

But Army regulations in effect since 1985 say superiors cannot lay a hand on their recruits to discipline them. The Army's Training and Doctrine Command regulations also disallow any physical or verbal hazing, which includes "cruel or abusive tricks." Vulgar or sexually explicit language is also prohibited.

The guidelines reflect some of the lessons of the Vietnam era and the changing culture of the Army, which became an all-volunteer force with the end of the draft and began accepting women.

The Army gets complaints of abuse by drill sergeants "all the time, but we often find that they are not founded," said Connie Shaffery, a Fort Knox apokeswoman.

The Fort Knox case, involving a unit of the 1st Battalion, 81st Armor Regiment, was unusual, too, in that a company commander was convicted.

The abuse took place in early February. An Army investigation began the next week, as the company's leaders were removed and the 25 recruits were sent to another command. Six of the trainees have since left the Army, including two who went AWOL.

"It was just chaos _ constant commotion, constant yelling," Sgt. 1st Class Paul Holley said. Holley said he had come over from another company that day to help out, but was quickly turned off by what he perceived to be abuse, and left.

"In my eyes, it wasn't the way I would conduct an initial pickup," he said.

Staff Sgt. Jason J. Harris, a drill instructor who has not been charged in the scandal, testified at one court-martial that it was the worst treatment of recruits he had ever seen.

Staff Sgt. David H. Price, Echo Company's head drill sergeant, said on the witness stand at his own court martial in April that he was "burned out" from being a D.I. for too long. He also said that he felt that the guidelines on abuse limited his ability to turn recruits into tough soldiers.

The evidence in the scandal included a 25-minute video _ taken by a sergeant as the recruits stepped off the bus _ that showed the recruits being poked, grabbed and berated. Recruits are often videotaped on arrival, and the footage is shown during their training graduation or at family days to show how far they have come.

Capt. William C. Fulton, 35, the company's commander, was convicted last week of false swearing and dereliction of duty for not halting the abuse. He was sentenced to six months' confinement.

Earlier this year, Price was convicted of maltreatment and demoted, as was Staff Sgt. Ricky L. Stauffer. Staff Sgt. Michael G. Rhoades was found guilty of maltreatment and impeding an investigation, and received a bad-conduct discharge. Staff Sgt. Bryan G. Duncan is awaiting a court-martial.

Harvey Perrit, a spokesman for the Army Training and Doctrine Command in Fort Monroe, Va., said there 120 allegations of abuse against Army drill sergeants in fiscal year 2004, and as a result 16 drill sergeants were relieved of duty.

So far in fiscal year 2005, there have been 42 complaints of abuse, and six sergeants have been relieved of duty, Perrit said.

Shaffery, the Fort Knox spokesman, said reforms put in place before the incident helped reveal the abuse. "We are holding to the policies and systems we have in place now, which discovered this situation within six days," she said.

Abuse

I know times are changing but I was under the impression that basic training was of the hands off type of thing as far as hitting and the good old ass thumping. I can remember back in 69 when I joined that we were told no DI would thump our ass's but they just did it out in back of the barracks after dark.

I took basic at Knox in 67 and the only time I ever saw anyone hit was on the line at the rifle range and we all thought that it was justified.

Shit happens. There will always be those that bend the rules, or just flat out go too far. Physical abuse is not the norm, in any current training process.

One fact that needs to be drilled into these recruits, IED's and suicide car bombers, insurgents armed with AKs and RPG's ain't accepting any of those stress cards. At least none that I've heard about.

I never finished my post, sorry bout that. As I was saying we were told it would not happen when I was invited out back in the early morning hours, had 2 ass whippings that day lol. I thought then as now I earned it.

They were poked, grabbed, pushed and god forbid! Cursed at!!???

Jesus H Christ, these kids are preparing for war, and they want to be baby sat? Why have boot camp anymore? Just issue a set of bdu's, soldiers handbook (so some of them will read it) and an M-16 at MEPS and put them on a C-17 to Baghdad.

I went to Army bootcamp and Infantry school before I joined the Navy, I then went to Navy boot camp, of course I was never a victim of violence, I was poked, pushed yelled at and subjected to grueling physical training. But this prepared me for the other chapters in my military career. If you can't take a few pokes in the chest or being yelled at then you are in the wrong business. Last I heard, bullets and rockets don't take training time outs when someone gets some dirt in their eyes.

Back in 75 I remember being 6'4' and the tallest instructer was 5'10'. They sure made up for it though the way they could dress you down.

I had a woking party that I had using (uh, NO!) POWER TOOLS. Nail guns, table saws and other maiming equipment. I had safety gear (gloves, goggles, masks, etc). I was told (by USN Officer) this was "out of line"? They were not permitted to do this. Engaged mouth (brain wasn't working) "Makes sense, we need to keep these guys completely away from anything dangerous before they go to Iraq." I had to go to "counseling" with the Command Master Chief....he had some common sense and understood how stupid this was, but I still had to take the power tools away to "keep everyone happy".
I also get a hard time from other Naval Officers working our troops past 8 hours a day (Marine Officers and the Marines themselves don't mind...). Joint assignments suck. Maybe I'm just old and crusty? It is time for me to retire....

It sound like they will have you reporting skinned knees and paper cuts next.

I think they need to use basic as a weed out process instead of passing everyone through just becasue you can pass a PT test and shoot a rifle. I hear everyone complain about the quality of soldiers but there are not nearly enough ELS's given at basic. I went through basic as an officer candidate and I could pass the PT and shoot a rifle and that was about it, I was so ate up I think it was almost guarenteed I would have got someone killed if it were real, I dident know where my stuff was, couldnt put a gas mask on in time so I was coughing and running into the woods, I was in sick call for like 2 weeks on and off and I passed. Just FYI so when you are complaining about some new guy who is ate up in your unit (possibly a 2ond lt) think about the quality control in training. I was removed from OCS after basic becasue I was so ate up so now I am out of the military for defective enlistment (because my MOS was OCS) and I was to ate up to even go to AIT and had excessive body fat, but it was a year long process that wasted alot of peoples time, money and energy.

kinda like the pot calling the kettle black...

Military training weeded you out didn't they?

And to think that he too could learn to use grammar. I think that the system worked fine and is another reason to train too many officers -- they are easier to replace that way.

And to think that was a future platoon leader.

Let us be brutally honest troopers. I went through Ft. Knox for OSUT in 1999. And it sure as hell wasn't my dad's boot camp. We got knocked around plenty, mostly at the hands of our fellow privates. You can't get a squad smoked, day-in, day-out, and not expect some recompense. But Drills are more scared for their career, than giving a damn about teaching a recruit anything. A prime case, November 2005; Fort Knox, KY. A Troop 5-15 Cavalry. Both 2nd Platoon Drill Sergeants were relieved of duty, busted two pay grades to E-4, and sentenced to confinement for 3 months. The reason: Two IET Soldiers, "towel-partied" another recruit, with D Cell Batteries in a wool sock. When CID and ESD (Enlistment Services Division) investigated, the line of questioning was never why they did it. It was "who" said it was okay to do this. Both recruits skated, and both DS' were shit-canned. Heaven forbid, indeed, we teach some accountability for one's actions. It was the mean, ol' Drill Sergeant's fault.
Personally, give me old Blood n' Guts Drill Sergeants (us Army types don't have DIs). I like a man I fear, and respect for his ability to crap on me, kick, punch, beat me from a slack-jawed civilian to a hard case Soldier. I trained through a devout hatred of my Drills; but I learned, went to war, and brought most of my troopers home alive.
But who is to blame? The Army? Doubtful. Johnny Citizen out there doesn't want their little darlings to have their feelings hurt. The Nation as a whole is reflected in our services. We want everyone to play nice and be tolerant. I say "we" begrudgingly; as I, too, am a member of this same society. You can't even slap your kid for being a smart-mouth without someone calling Child Protective Services. So our Privates act like children, and we can't reprimand the little turds for fear of losing our careers. Then you have a case where something like this happens, and we are the bad guys.
But make no mistake, I do what my rank can afford. I will beat it soundly into my Troopers' heads, their failure to execute the mission WILL get someone killed. If that's what it takes. 'Cause its a long walk off that C-17 knowing one of your troopers will have to look your buddy's wife and daughter he never saw, in the eye; and let 'em know "I couldn't hack it, Mike didn't make it."

"Men. Today, they took one of ours. So, tonight, we will show them what Mr. 120mm Smoothbore, and Mr. 25-Mike-Mike, have to say about it. And we they speak, EVERYONE LISTENS."--LTC William T. Dolan Tiger 6, 3CAV

I think you hit the nail on the head cavscout. The military did weed me out with quite a bit of help from myself (I had a special easy out clause as an 09S). However that is not the case with 90% of privates, alot of people are pushed through the training to the detriment of many. The whole "you" signed on the dotted line mentallity and "your" staying and then mike doesnt come home because "you" stop trying becasue "you" dident want to be there anymore.

should of used a bar of soap in the sock. (no marks)

Thats exactly the problem. Making a bad taste in someones mouth even worse about the military. When your own troops want to kill you more than the enemy you have problems.

Not for long in a combat unit.

Thats ture, in a combat situation you dont have all of the time to BS around like a fraternity with the soap and sock thing. So if I dident like you I could shoot you in the back or you would shoot me and then its over, no more BSing around. The military claims honor blah blah, but everyone I have ran into acted little better than a college fraternity member and it is absurd to respect some like that regardless of rank.

Its no BS in a combat unit. Its a Ph D. Piled higher and Deeper! Our bull is more dedicated to the polarizing of the unit. We perpetually are pruning the ranks. It is neccessary to our survival. Many of the men that speak on these pages are testament to the proud tradition I am in. They harbor no ill will towards the weak, but they do not want to fail on account of their subordinates. They also know the traditions before them, and are keepers of the flame. The torch was passed, and certain things must remain. If its too tough in Boot Camp, you can't cut it when its the real deal. Its a time tested method. Example, any of the Vietnam veterans familiar with the Shake n Bake NCO academies; it was a broken program, the end result produced some good NCOs, some bad NCOs. So the program was eventualy scrapped, Boot Camp hasn't changed much in the scheme of training. It has changed in atmosphere; we polished the turd to make it look nice on the outside. But the inside is still mean and nasty.