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Picture of Commie
Registered: 20 June 2006
Posts: 56
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rppearso, I can understand what your trying to say but I think you misudnerstand what I am saying or trying to convey.

I do not care about getting yelled at and am not worried about getting recycled. It takes a very 'special' person to get recycled in any BMT course.

the WTC is four weeks long according to the various websites I have looked at and including tactics training and advanced weapons training. I am not looking for information about the training experiance. I know that I will not be high on the totem pole but thats part of being in the military.

Also, I do not care about the comparison of civilians and military. I am not trying to stay in the military so I will be treated the way a civilian is and I am not staying for the money. I love the way of life the military has to offer for the most part

Does anyone have any information on what active duty non-training army life is like or would be like for a hard working, smart person. ie, am I going to be treated like everyone else regardless of the work and effort I put in?

Thanks agin
Registered: 19 May 2006
Posts: 16
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I'm active duty Air Force, in the intel field with four years in and every assignment I've had has been joint service with the Army. One thing I have seen about the Army that I don't like is that their style of training is such that it betlittles the individual to a great extent, and puts more emphasis on the group.

The Air Force looks at each Airman on a more personal level and tries to build that person into an asset for the military. The Army definitely doesn't have that mindset. If you're lower enlisted, the Army demands subordination at all costs. In the Air Force it's not uncommon to see an A1C say "um, excuse me, Master Sergeant, I don't think that's a good idea because..." In the Army that is unacceptable. You, as a Pfc. (or whatever the rank may be) have no business telling a higher ranking person ANYTHING. They insist that this is to instill the mentality in soldiers to follow orders at all costs, which will save lives in the field. I've never been "in the field" and I have no place to criticize those methods, but in day-to-day operations this mindset has created an inferiority complex in many lower enlisted troops. Those that buy into the system have no sense of self-reliance and are completely lost unless an NCO is right there barking orders at them.

Another difference is that of facilities. The AF definitely has nicer bases and amenities all around. I'm not sure exactly how the military budget is broken down, and which service gets what but you can definitely tell the Air Force goes the extra mile for an increased standard of living on their bases. If you're stationed somewhere for a long period of time, this definitely makes a difference in morale and outlook. I've been at an Army post for two years (probably will be here for another two) and many Airmen are miserable because as Airman we expected better. You might not hear the Army complain, but they also might not realize that the grass IS greener over on our side. That reason may sound a bit trivial, but it goes beyond just "nicer bases." When you see a neatly organized base with state-of-the-art facilities it gives the impression that that base or branch of service has a higher self-esteem...which has a direct effect on morale of the people stationed there.

Well, those are just a couple factors that I have observer during my time in. I'm not saying that the Air Force is better than the Army, but there are differences, some are cosmetic, others are deeply rooted. If you can work a deal so that you come in as an E4 or maybe get more perks cause you're prior service, it might not be so bad. I also looked into the Army Warrant Officer program and it seemed pretty lucrative to me...so whatever you do, good luck.
Picture of Commie
Registered: 20 June 2006
Posts: 56
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quote:
Originally posted by MovingtargeT:
I'm active duty Air Force, in the intel field with four years in and every assignment I've had has been joint service with the Army. One thing I have seen about the Army that I don't like is that their style of training is such that it betlittles the individual to a great extent, and puts more emphasis on the group.

The Air Force looks at each Airman on a more personal level and tries to build that person into an asset for the military. The Army definitely doesn't have that mindset. If you're lower enlisted, the Army demands subordination at all costs. In the Air Force it's not uncommon to see an A1C say "um, excuse me, Master Sergeant, I don't think that's a good idea because..." In the Army that is unacceptable. You, as a Pfc. (or whatever the rank may be) have no business telling a higher ranking person ANYTHING. They insist that this is to instill the mentality in soldiers to follow orders at all costs, which will save lives in the field. I've never been "in the field" and I have no place to criticize those methods, but in day-to-day operations this mindset has created an inferiority complex in many lower enlisted troops. Those that buy into the system have no sense of self-reliance and are completely lost unless an NCO is right there barking orders at them.

Another difference is that of facilities. The AF definitely has nicer bases and amenities all around. I'm not sure exactly how the military budget is broken down, and which service gets what but you can definitely tell the Air Force goes the extra mile for an increased standard of living on their bases. If you're stationed somewhere for a long period of time, this definitely makes a difference in morale and outlook. I've been at an Army post for two years (probably will be here for another two) and many Airmen are miserable because as Airman we expected better. You might not hear the Army complain, but they also might not realize that the grass IS greener over on our side. That reason may sound a bit trivial, but it goes beyond just "nicer bases." When you see a neatly organized base with state-of-the-art facilities it gives the impression that that base or branch of service has a higher self-esteem...which has a direct effect on morale of the people stationed there.

Well, those are just a couple factors that I have observer during my time in. I'm not saying that the Air Force is better than the Army, but there are differences, some are cosmetic, others are deeply rooted. If you can work a deal so that you come in as an E4 or maybe get more perks cause you're prior service, it might not be so bad. I also looked into the Army Warrant Officer program and it seemed pretty lucrative to me...so whatever you do, good luck.


Thanks for the insight. I am gonna try and get a WO position in writing.

Thanks again
Registered: 19 February 2006
Posts: 1240
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Make sure you get flight school in writing as well.
"Curmudgeon"
Picture of HarryP
Location: Washtenaw County, Michigan
Registered: 21 January 2005
Posts: 1727
Posted   Hide PostReply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post  
quote:
I've never been "in the field" and I have no place to criticize those methods, but in day-to-day operations this mindset has created an inferiority complex in many lower enlisted troops. Those that buy into the system have no sense of self-reliance and are completely lost unless an NCO is right there barking orders at them.



Talk about being clueless about the Army. Maybe if you got into the field you might understand more about how it really runs.


"It is fatal to enter any war without the will to win it"
DOUGLAS MacARTHUR, 1952
Registered: 19 February 2006
Posts: 1240
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heavy weight HarryP goes in for the body slam.

The statements he made about the army could not be closer to the truth, he even articulated himself well as to try not to offend anyone and you still came in with the piledrive.

I wonder why people dont like to join the army or marines as much as the air force or navy???
Registered: 19 May 2006
Posts: 16
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Well, you quoted my remark about being "in the field" and I already mentioned I have not been deployed to a forward location. I didn't say I weaseled out of a deployment, I didn't say I purposely picked an AFSC (MOS to you) that would never bring me into harm's way. But I can still say for a fact that being in the Army doesn't mean that you're deployed 100% of the time, so there are other aspects of military life to consider.

From his tone, the original poster sounds like he is considering making the military a career, so hopefully I might have clarified something that no one else touched on yet. If you don't think I'm qualified to speak about how the Army is, why don't I direct you to my Army friends and coworkers who ask me daily "hey, do you think they'd let me transfer to the Air Force?"
Picture of thegunny
Registered: 24 January 2005
Posts: 2869
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movingtarget.....that's okay. you just got tagged with a touch of friendly fire. (certainly wasn't anything like a body slam though)

Why anyone would ever want to go from AirForce to Army is beyond me though. Talk about a rude awakening. Your assessment concerning how the higher ups within the Army hits some in here as plausible, but with others as patently false within thier own personal experiences. So hence a little friendly fire directed back at you.


SEMPER FI
The Gunny

PROUD TO BE AN INFIDEL
I haven't got a clue how to change people, but I am keeping a long list of prospective candidates just in case I figure it out!
Registered: 19 February 2006
Posts: 1240
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I would rather be homeless than be back in the army.
Registered: 19 May 2006
Posts: 16
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No offense taken. Being in intel, you get a unique view of the military. On one hand you work with the other services and learn a lot about how they operate. On the other...you're essentially in a REMF position, which can affect your outlook on the overall military a great deal.
Picture of thegunny
Registered: 24 January 2005
Posts: 2869
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I'm glad you brought up the REMF acronym! I had written and deleted more than a few colorful comments concerning REMF's, but didn't want to appear to be slamming you.


SEMPER FI
The Gunny

PROUD TO BE AN INFIDEL
I haven't got a clue how to change people, but I am keeping a long list of prospective candidates just in case I figure it out!
Registered: 19 February 2006
Posts: 1240
Posted   Hide PostReply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post  
REMF?
Picture of thegunny
Registered: 24 January 2005
Posts: 2869
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Rear Echelon Mutha Fu*kers....those guy's tell some of the best war stories (at the bar)!


SEMPER FI
The Gunny

PROUD TO BE AN INFIDEL
I haven't got a clue how to change people, but I am keeping a long list of prospective candidates just in case I figure it out!
Registered: 19 February 2006
Posts: 1240
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Someone has to do it, not everyone is cut out for combat, my self included, im not even cut out to serve, unless it were as a civilian contractor which is really rear echelon MF's RREMF's.
Picture of thegunny
Registered: 24 January 2005
Posts: 2869
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hmmmm, let me get this part correct, you wanted to be a military pilot, but it had to be something that wouldn't be in combat?

By the way, civilian contractor's are called sand crabs, not REMF.

REMF are military members in supporting role outside but close to combat area.


SEMPER FI
The Gunny

PROUD TO BE AN INFIDEL
I haven't got a clue how to change people, but I am keeping a long list of prospective candidates just in case I figure it out!
Registered: 19 February 2006
Posts: 1240
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Sand crabs eh, im sure that has somekinda negitive conotation. Our aviation branch mission was search and rescue, but they were being deployed very frequently and the black hawks were being converted into combat helicopters.
Picture of patoloco
Location: Arizona
Registered: 08 May 2005
Posts: 1460
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sand crabs, huh? How come they just call me variations of "scum" (scumbag, scumball, contractor scum, scumsucker, etc).

Or POS. I get that one a lot, especially from the AD Marines I work with. Marines, being what they are, sometimes combine it all together into the royal title of "POS, Scumsucking Contractor".

I love my job.
Registered: 19 February 2006
Posts: 1240
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That is the marines showing the pinical of there intellegance. The military would still be fighting with swords if it wernt for "contractors" so to speak, civilians, inventors, engineers, scientists, etc.
"Curmudgeon"
Picture of HarryP
Location: Washtenaw County, Michigan
Registered: 21 January 2005
Posts: 1727
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Not true.


"It is fatal to enter any war without the will to win it"
DOUGLAS MacARTHUR, 1952
Picture of patoloco
Location: Arizona
Registered: 08 May 2005
Posts: 1460
Posted   Hide PostReply With QuoteEdit or Delete MessageReport This Post  
quote:
Originally posted by rppearso:
That is the marines showing the pinical of there intellegance. The military would still be fighting with swords if it wernt for "contractors" so to speak, civilians, inventors, engineers, scientists, etc.


The name calling-- It's a joke...again. Say "pop".

Speaking of showing intelligence:

It's their not "there"
It's pinnacle, not "pinical"
Intelligence not "intellegance"
and weren't not "wernt"

And you should always capitalize Marine (and to be fair; Soldier, Sailor, and Airman).
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