What 9 week clock!? Its a contract for a term of service. Not just 9 weeks of training. There are no such things as basic training regulations. Its the rules while you are there, and you WILL abide by them. Failure to do so, is wrong, and so punished.
I am shocked you would think I have a hard time distinguishing day-to-day conduct and action in the military, and somehow it is different from BCT. You still do what you are told, and execute the mission accordingly. Failure to do so reaps the EXACT same results in the regular Army as well. If you are on crutches or in a brace, you still will hobble your ass across post, or from the barracks, to formations, several times a day. Your assumption that PTRP or FTU is a "removal" from training is wrong as well. Until you are MOS qualified, you are not out of training. At NO time, EVER, are you completely out of training in the military. Always ready, means always training. Then again, you also find the job of being in the military, somehow different from being employed in the private sector. Bosses can't yell at me or I'll sue! Fat chance getting that one through the court Mr. Frivolous Lawsuit. You completely miss every point, including the one that there is more to the story. There is always more to the story when it comes to soldier's griping. If you believe it at face value, what you read; you are truly lost. Drill Sergeants in the last 25 years, didn't just walk up and knock injured people down for shits and giggles. Drill Sergeants react to YOUR actions, they do not proact them to get a snicker. I was in a hell of a lot tougher basic training than Fort Lost-in-the-Woods, and we played stupid games. At least we could UNDERSTAND, and COMPREHEND it was a game. And until we started functioning like a team, and not a bunch of INDIVIDUALS, it would end. Thats the truth, its also fact. Drills pull you out of the barracks every half hour for a formation, because someone couldn't make it on time, or was to busy sneaking a soda, or cell phone call, to even show up. Uniform drills, quick change, teaches you time management, and is usually punishment because some shitbag can't stay in uniform properly. There is always a reason, whether you see it or not. I was there, I did it, too. I'm not a child anymore, so I can understand the rationale behind it. The truth? You think it subhuman, inhumane, abuse, whatever, fine, none of us care what you think about it. You couldn't do it, were weeded out expertly by a flawless system. It achieved desired results, and we are thankful for it. We have no need for quitters, screw-ups, fat-bodies, broke-dicks, and non-hackers. If they are temporary conditions, so be it, you will be 100% mission capable when you are healed. Thats doesn't mean you traipse around as you still do, bitching about how you broke your ankle, how the military "wronged" you. You heal, you perform, you execute. You move past it, you grow up.

The fact that you had it worse is exactly the problem (thats why combat arms people are generally a problem), you have the mentality that you went through hell so damn it so will these little puke privates (am I getting warm), thats how hazing cycles work. I went through a rigourus engineering program (even though it doesnt mean anything to you becasue we dident have quick change in college because we were to busy learning more profound information) so I think I am sufficiently self disiplined and can manage my time well. If we had got to basic got our rooms and been given a sylibus I could have shown up on time to every lagitimate training event and done well, its the BS inbetween the training events that is hazing, I dont mind getting up and doing hard core PT but cut the bull shit, I will move with a purpose when there is a lagit purpose to move and dont scream or talk shit. The only reason I played the game is because they controled my return plane ticket other wise I would have had no problem challenging a drill, and I would have got hurt but I gaurentee after 4 years of power lifting and 5 years of martial arts that drill would not be walking away, and its all because they cant cut out the shit.

You can lagitimize anything you want, why not take it a step farther and justify a flogging because some one had a piece of candy, you justify hazing and then tell me im mr frivolous lawsuit, when all I said was "depending on what is going on" not absolutly he can sue. And a bounus is not enough to justify staying in a shitty job unless the bounus is so substantial that it will allow you to retire significantly earlier or allow you to maintain your currant level of quality of life while smoothly transitioning to another job.

I will never regret my decision for leaving the military, I can learn to fly helicopters in the civilian world and it will be alot cheaper than 12 years of my life (which will be worth well over a million dollars, considering you have to have about 2 million to retire comfortably). Money is just paper, its what you do to get that money that counts, 8,9,10,12 hours a day is a long time and if your quality of life sucks during that time what are some pieces of paper worth, the 2 or 3 hours after work that you get to watch your big TV or maybe your thinking after I retire I will enjoy it when your 50-60 or older and half your life is gone.

ok so I really dont get you man. If the military wronged you so why are you posting on this forum? to try to dissasuade potential recruits or what?

Its exactly what he is trying to do OneoftheLost.


for rrpearso: You are no where near warm. You just laid it out, too. You wanted to get a syllabus handed to you. You wanted everything given to you, you have no fortitude to work for it. You can't follow simple instructions given to you verbally, you need it spelled out for you. Maybe we can get mommy and daddy to come and hold your hand for you, too. Stroke you and tell you the mean ol' world won't hurt you. I love your education comment, how you were "learning more profound information." Cuz I iz a dumb kombat arms dood. Like you inability to spell or form sentences with grammatical quality, great profound information you got. You've utterly lost this battle. Even the one you attempted to encourage onto your path has grown weary of your dissent. All you see is the hostile face of a grunt that wants to "abuse" everyone in my "un-equal opportunity torture house" where I can beat, maim, and injure, every "slimey maggot" that walks into my domain. Heaven forbid I actually lead these young men into battle, and they would give their life for me, and I for them; because I am sure the Holocaust victims loved the Nazis, and would've followed them anywhere. You are the dumbest "engineer" I know.

Please end this thread, I, too, grow weary of this banter.

quote:

Originally posted by CavScout19D30:
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...
All you see is the hostile face of a grunt that wants to "abuse" everyone in my "un-equal opportunity torture house" where I can beat, maim, and injure, every "slimey maggot" that walks into my domain.....
blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah...

Gots my rppearso reading glasses on.

Don't forget the tall boots!

Here is another good article though not as good as the last. If your wife gives you a BJ and the military can prove it there going to hang you by your balls (5 years, does that sound rational). The military refers to it as sodomy (another buzz word)

http://washingtontimes.com/upi-breaking/20050425-053255-8084r.htm

This stuff is all fact and so was the last article. You can claim spin all you want but it doesnt change reality. Someone can claim anything is spun. You will know im not spinning anything when you are sitting in reception and get your ass chewed for crossing your leg.

One of the lost: if you join you will remember these posts when you are sitting in reception or basic. You may go through the military with little incident but if shit goes down you have little recourse and little rights. When you talk to a recruiter things like this are conviently left out, and if you ask they will explain it away and justify, you should ask what civilian rights you will loose, a percentage of the bill of rights? Of course the bill of rights breaks down "disipline", "teamwork" and control isent that right cav. The very constituion you swear to defend breaks down the military? The founders of the constition must have been quitters and fat bodies because they refused to continue to be oppressed.

Oh btw, because I want something writen out means im a "wimp", or "crybaby" because having something writen out is better than having unintelagable screaming directed at you and often it is different between 2 drills so now you are getting your ass chewed because of contradicting information, if its writen you dont have that problem. Im sure colleges, business, and anyone who uses writen communication is a "crybaby". Im such a dumb engineer that I am taking on my own projects with less than a year experence.

Dumb engineer is superfluous word usage.

Also, several states have the same laws on the books – they are just not enforced.

Enforcement is everything though and the only state I know of that has that law is louisiana and they are more of a third world country than a state. And that article is just another dart in the board of military life that is not spoke of in the recruiting office.

Because it is possible to make weak justification for each individual argument the entire picture must be painted for which there is no justification other than blanketed statements like "disipline" which is really just heavy-handedness but disipline sounds better and makes abusive treatment sound lagitimate or attention to detail that one is my favorite, you can justify all kinds of demeaning abuse with that buzz word.

Below are the rates of military recruits who fail to make it through the respective military boot camp.

The services report that most recruits fail to complete basic training for medical reasons, including injuries and previously undisclosed physical or mental conditions, and other performance-related issues.

DoD officials keenly watch recruit attrition numbers, especially since the cost of recruiting new service members averages about $11,000 each -- some $3,000 more than just a few years ago.

Combined with an average cost of initial entry training at $35,000, DoD's investment in military recruit accessions and training is enormous since more than 200,000 of America's youth are recruited for active military service each year.
Service 1998 rate Latest Available Rate (2002)

Army 17.9% 13.6%
Air Force 8.8% 7.1%
Navy 17.0% 14.0%
Marines 13.5% 11.7%


Non-medical recycle rates (where a recruit is "recycled" to spend more time in boot camp to overcome problems) for all the services are about the same, fluxuating between five and ten percent.

do they count early discharges? Because if you dont have a profound medical problem you will get recycled and who wants to be recycled, it is easier to just pass and get out after basic, that would still be attrition but not out of basic just out of the military in general, which is what I did, because basic itself was the problem being recycled only would have made things worse.

If they did not recycle and all of the recycles became discharges, thoes numbers might be a little higher.

these figures are from 1998 to 2002.

and they only cover the four indicated branches of service, and the National Guard isn't even tracked due to volume. (low)

note the last statement...non-medical fluxuated between 5 and 10 percent. Thats a pretty high number when you think about it. When I went through Marine Boot (July of 1974), my platoon 3072 in San Diego, started out with 110 recruits, when I graduated, there were 37 original platoon members at graduation. We went through 3 complete sets of Drill Instructors.

OMG, I would fear for thoes that were recycled through marine boot thats where I think you would get most of your freak outs and suicide attempts. As opposed to air force basic. And then if you had a freak out or mental break down you would get recycled even longer, that would have to be the closest thing to hell on earth.

Man, if I thought basic was hell on earth, I couldn't imagine fighting for a year in combat. Oh, wait, I did that.....nevermind.
No initial entry training program is easy. Not even the Air Force. I know first-hand growing up with an Air Force TI for a father. Just because the Air Force isn't out there shooting up the sandbox, doesn't make them less rigid or disciplined, nor equally trying.

That is true, being recycled would be nightmarish in any branch and would start causing freak outs and suicide attempts.

quote:

That is true, being recycled would be nightmarish in any branch and would start causing freak outs and suicide attempts

Again, you're over the top. Suicide isn't that big of an issue in boot camp. Suicide attempts in boot camp are rare. And the suicide isn't related to boot camp, most are related to a girlfriend breaking up with her boyfriend or vice versa. People don't kill themselves in boot camp because they can't handle the pressure. You may be the exception to the rule though rppearso. Too bad you failed to do that as well.

If I started having freak outs bad enough I would have just went AWOL and petitioned my case to my congressman and requested reebursment for my return plane ticket from the military through my congressman.

I couldent handle a year in combat, thats what basic is suppost to be is to weed out thoes that cant hack it, but unless you have some kind of substantial medical problem they push you thorugh it, so there is no real weed out process. If I had be put in as an infantry officer and been sent to combat I probably would have got someone killed because im not a leader nor am I mentally stable on 2 hrs of sleep for long periods of time.

Of course they would have weeded me out in OCS anyways and I would have been discharged, so I guess the system works in that regard, but I dont have to be an officer to get someone killed becasue I freaked out.