My son is thinking of joining the National Guard. The recruiter is telling him things like Boot camp is easy, chances are you won’t go to Iraq, its as easy as signing up and go to college for 4 years and the US will pay for it with pay and bonuses. Telling him that he is more likely to get killed by a drunk driver than in Iraq. My son is 17 years old and is currently working in housing construction at $8 an hour. He has been with this company for about 3 weeks and is told he will get frequent raises. He also can easily pass a welding test or mechanic test for large equipment after he turns 18. (he has learned these skills from his dad). He has been lead to believe from the recruiter that without the military and the college program he will never make ends meat.
My fear is that he will join and be off to Iraq. Don’t get my wrong I am very proud of the US Military and all it does. I just don’t think my son understands what it is like in the military. I’m not sure what im looking for here. Maybe a way to make him see what the military is truly about. I just don’t think he can handle mentally what is going to be asked of him. It takes a special kind of person and I just don’t think its for everyone or anyone that is just looking or needing a job. Thanks to all of you.

OMG, my recruiter told me the same things. Basic is a nightmare (do some research on the PTRP) and they will haze the shit out of you, you get about 4 hours of sleep a night (they say 8 but fire gaurd interupts your sleep cycle and you only end up with about 4 solid hours) and when its wake up time the wake up is very rude and abrupt, I was physically sick the entire time in basic because you can not recover from any illness. The recruiter is correct that the odds are not high of getting killed in iraq (but are higher than getting in a wreck unless your son is frequently the drunk driver), the thing with iraq is your life will suck for a long time and your chances of comming back injured are high. You can get college money in the gaurd but it is restrictive as to what classes, cost per credit etc. I hated my experience in the guard and would rather not have ends meet than be in the military. I went to college before joining the guard as an officer candidate to fly helicopters and I regret that decision. before the military I applied for the FAFSA out of high school and got my degree from the colorado school of mines in chemical engineering I now work in oil and gas and do very well making ends meet and I dident need the military to do it all the military did is give me a busted anckle and new found disrespect for the institution. It is extremely stressful, and I never believed it until I was in but they do own your ass by basicly controling your money, how the hell are you going to go awol without a taxi and a plane ticket, your ticket to basic does not come with your return ticket in case things dont work out.

That being said some people like there experience in the military, I think half of the people that say that are lying to themselves to convince themselves that they dident just waste 4-8 years of there life.

They really are hard up for recruits arent they, once you are in and decide you dont like it there (recruiters, members sitting around with the recruiters etc) whole tune changes. I work right next to the national guard recruiting office of my states national gaurd and see people that knew me when I was in the gaurd, its really sad because I have a new found disrespect for uniformed military members they have to prove they are a respectable human being before I will give them the time of day and thats aweful because they are just people too but I always think back to the abuse I had to endure.

Just try to keep him from talking to the recruiter and guide him to a different trade or engineering university, military benifits are not real (do some research on how hard it is to actually use GI benifits), put yourself on a do not call list and sign an opt out form at his school so recruiters can not contact him, also find out when the military rounds up all high school students to take the ASVAB and figure out how you can get him out of it with out it being socially awkward, they probably do it in rotations for different classes just get him out of that rotation.

Also if he decides he wants out, his discharge type can ruin his future and socailly stigmatize him (I crafted my discharge + I was lucky so I got an uncharachterized which will not effect gov jobs or security clearnaces for national labratory scientist jobs) but 90% of people who get out early for unsatisfactory performance (which is the only way to get out early short of getting seriously hurt) get a bad discharge.

There is alot to think about here.

Correction I did not at all regret going to college I regret joining the gaurd.

The military glorifies itself big time, if your son wants to work with fighter jets go to work for lock heed martin or boeing don't join the military.

Thank you so much for your honesty. I am going to have him read this when he gets home from work. Your statements are exactly what I thought it was like but can’t get him to understand, but he will.. I agree that some love it but it is not for him, I know him to well. And not just because its my kid. Again I want to say I respect anyone that serves and thank you all for what you do.

Cheri

Please don't take rppearso's comments as gospel on this. I will agree that he does have first hand experience with regards to the National Guard in HIS state, it is by no means indicative of all states. Just remember, the advice from him is from one who failed to even serve with any degree of success. He is also wrong on so many levels with his blanket statments concerning the military. There is a very large difference between serving in the National Guard and serving in any of the regular military branches ie: Air Force, Army, Navy and Marines. It is NOT the same. National Guard would like to think it is, but its not.

If your son wants to serve his country then great. If your son is looking as the military as a way out of situations, he really needs to weight all of the facts. Rppearso did provide some good insight, but his response is highly biased in my opinion. He didn't even succeed in his attempt to serve. Myself, I served 20 years in the Marine Corps, worked in artillery, and in aviation as a Rolls Royce Jet Engine Mechanic. Other members of this board served with honor and distinction. These are the folks that can give you and your son true insight into military service.

Rppearso is dead wrong when his say's "The military glorifies itself big time, if your son wants to work with fighter jets go to work for Lockheed Martin or Boeing don't join the military". A young man with nothing more under his belt than what you described of him, wouldn't get in the door at Boeing or Lockheed Martin. Successful service in the military will not only provide him with valuable experience, but can also provide him with contacts that can get him into a civilian career outside of construction.

But, by all means, show him the responses generated in here. I will state that the regulars in here can and will respond to any questions you or he may have about military service.

Ask him if he would like to be able to serve with men like the one in the below link:

Do I deserve this?

The True American Spirit
Thought I would share this. Not sure if any of these anecdotal stories are true or not, but they certainly could be, and are representative of the true spirit of America and Americans. God Bless this country and those who fight to keep us free.


When in England at a fairly large conference, Colin Powell was asked by the Archbishop of Canterbury if our plans for Iraq were just an example of empire building by George Bush. He answered by saying, 'Over the years, the United States has sent many of its fine young men and women into great peril to fight for freedom beyond our borders. The only amount of land we have ever asked for in return is enough to bury those that did not return.'

It became very quiet in the room.

Then there was a conference in France where a number of international engineers were taking part, including French and American. During a break one of the French engineers came back into the room saying 'Have you heard the latest dumb stunt Bush has done? He has sent an aircraft carrier to Indonesia to help the tsunami victims. What does he intended to do, bomb them?' A Boeing engineer stood up and replied quietly: 'Our carriers have three hospitals on board that can treat several hundred people; they are nuclear powered and can supply emergency electrical power to shore facilities; they have three cafeterias with the capacity to feed 5,000 people three meals a day, they can produce several thousand gallons of fresh water from sea water each day, and they carry half a dozen helicopters for use in transporting victims and injured to and from their flight deck.. We have eleven such ships; how many does France have?'

Once again, dead silence.

A U.S. Navy Admiral was attending a naval conference that included Admirals from the U.S. , English, Canadian, Australian and French navies. At a cocktail reception, he found himself standing with a large group of officers that included personnel from most of those countries. Everyone was chatting away in English as they sipped their drinks but a French admiral suddenly complained that, 'whereas Europeans learn many languages, Americans learn only English.' He then asked, 'Why is it that we always have to speak English in these conferences rather than speaking French?' Without hesitating, the American Admiral replied 'Maybe it's because the Brits, Canadians, Aussies and Americans arranged it so you wouldn't have to speak German.'

You could have heard a pin drop

AND THIS STORY FITS RIGHT IN WITH THE ABOVE:

A group of Americans, retired teachers, recently went to France on a tour. Robert Whiting, an elderly gentleman of 83, arrived in Paris by plane. At French Customs, he took a few minutes to locate his passport in his carry on. "You have been to France before, monsieur?" the customs officer asked sarcastically. Mr. Whiting admitted that he had been to France previously. "Then you should know enough to have your passport ready." The American said, "The last time I was here, I didn't have to show it." "Impossible. Americans always have to show your passports on arrival in France !" The American senior gave the Frenchman a long hard look. Then he quietly explained. "Well, when I came ashore at Omaha Beach on D-Day in '44 to help liberate this country, I couldn't find any damn Frenchmen to show it to."

This message has been edited. Last edited by: thegunny,

I agree with gunny, you will need a minimum of a BS degree in engineering/science from a good school to work at boeing which is why I push engineering and science so hard. Having a BS degree from a good school will speak much louder than any military experence you can have. If you want to join for reasons unknown to me (like some gut reason to serve or whatever) others on this board can help you.

Ronald, some people choose to serve because they feel it is the right thing to do. We realize that you do not understand this.

It is the same as volunteering at a hospital or a food bank or some other charity. There are people who do it and then there are people who just giving money, not because of the time involved but because it is easier. Service is not necessarily easy.

I think your son needs to do more research by talking to different recuiters.

No one on this forum is going to be able to tell your son what the military is like. All they can tell him is what their experiances with the military were. Some will say that the best times were when they were knee deep in the shit alongside their comrades in arms. Other will say the best time they had was when they walked off the base for the last time. It all depends on the person.

Your son should talk to current soldiers and find out what they like and dislike, what they regret and what they would do again and again. Ask soldiers if they could change ONE thing about the military what would it be and why?

Your son also should know that the military is not a 9 to 5 job and the military is going to expect him to perform the the best of his abilities regardless of the conditions. Doing a half ass job because the job is no longer fun or because you want to get back to your bunk ASAP could get people killed. Also, the military is not something that one can simply hand in a two week notice and then leave, he will be commiting himself to serve the military to the best of his abilities for a determined amount of time.

The military has A LOT to offer its members but it also expects a lot.

commie

well said!

Thank you all for your input. My son has agreed to take things slower and weigh his options. I think he finally understands that just jumping up and joining the military “just because” is not the best of ideas. I thank you all from the bottom of my heard for what you do. Maybe one day he will decide to join for the right reasons and I will be worried but proud to see him go.

quote:

Originally posted by rppearso:
(like some gut reason to serve or whatever)

ronald, like harry said, some people have decided to give back to the country that supplies them with freedom and oxygen, though we dont expect YOU to know what it means to want to serve your country...........

There is more than one way to give back, you dont have to be in the military to help people out. Dont knock giving money, money represnets your time and helps your church greatly to get things done and help other people.

Man we need to add spell check on the forum for ronald.

Coachman I need a spell checker but it won't help ronald his post don't make much sense to me anyway I actually don't think he knows very much about anything except cry I hate the US Military.

Well Hell Sully it was a thought

quote:

Man we need to add spell check on the forum for ronald.

I've advised him a couple times to download/use Mozilla Firefox. The browser itself has spell check. But I'm a "hard-line" (whatever the hell that means) asshole retired Marine NCO. He won't take my advice. Even thought it was a trick when I recommended the book "Catch-22"-- he thought I was trying to trick him into reading evil, "hard-liner" crap. That's the mentality you're dealing with there, Cheri-- just so you know.

As far as your son goes, I know where you're coming from. My son just joined the Marines. It's tough on parents, especially when their kids join during a war. My son was 20, so it's a little different. He did take his time talking it over with friends and family and I think he was mature enough to make his own decision. At 17, your son might not be at that moment. I'm glad he's taking things slower. The National Guard is still a good option...and taking things slow. And the recruiter, is not lying...the statistics are that you are more likely to be killed in a car accident than in the war zone. The money for college is there as well (though it's not that much, you get a "full ride" with an active duty tour...I can't remember how much it was, but it seemed it was only enough money for a couple years of college if my son went the Reserve route). And, yes, TYPICALLY, A FULL TIME STUDENT will not be called up to serve in a deployment to Iraq and Afghanistan, but nobody, including the recruiter, can guarantee that.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: patoloco,

To rppearso, first of all it is GUARD not gaurd. Second when were you in ? recently ? You sound like those spoiled kids I had to deal with in the '90's before I retired. The Military isn't supposed to be easy. You are there to protect your country. Do you think the enemy is going to let you sleep 8 hours before they attack. You sound like one of those guys who says, "I didn't know i was gonna have to fight. I just joined to get money for College." If anybody is offended by this message, GOOD!!!!

It was less about the sleep and mostly about the assholeness of most of the NCO's, does someone really have to swear, yell and speak negitivly constantly and this is out side of basic training, but it is not even called for in basic. Getting up early to run and crawl under wire with machine gun fire is what the military does but I dont need some ass hole standing over me telling me im a worthless piece of shit 24/7 how the hell am I going to be motivated when so many people in the military have that attitude. I have a BS in chemical engineering if anyone is a worthless piece of shit its that barely high school educated NCO who is making a bunch of ignorant comments. This is why I dont recommend the miltiary to anyone, I know what it takes to be successful in life and what it takes to get stuff done and this behavior is counter productive and is nothing but a bunch or BS.