I know of a couple pilots that were enlisted before they got their butter bars. Nice guys and if they can do it then you should have no problem. Don't worry about pear he always acts like this. You will get use to his blabbering.

here's a quick method to see if you qualify to be a fighter pilot:
when engaged in a serious conversation with yer buddies, do you use your hands to get your point across?

fighter pilots can carry on a complete conversation using only their hands with a minimum of words being spoken.

Anyone can fly a plane.

Pilots can land them.

You can enlist first but keep in mind you have until you are 26 or so to be competitive for a pilot slot so you have to have all your ducks in a row at 26 years of age that includes your degree (preferably engineering or science). I have never heard of a fighter pilot that was enlisted first, most of them went through the air force academy or AFROTC. If you want to fly civilian dont even bother with the military because unless you are directly in a flying position the military will be more of a hinderance than a help towards getting your civilian certifications.

So, do you have facts upon which to base your advice?

The chief of staff of the US Air Force decided that he would personally intervene in the recruiting crisis affecting all of our armed services. He directed a nearby Air Force base that will be opened and that all eligible young men and women be invited. As he and his staff were standing near a brand new F-15 Fighter, a pair of twin brothers who looked like they had just stepped off a Marine Corps recruiting poster walked up to them.

The chief of staff walked up to them, stuck out his hand and introduced himself. He looked at the first young man and asked, "Son, what skills can you bring to the Air Force?"

The young man looks at him and says, "I'm a pilot!"

The general gets all excited, turns to his aide and says, "Get him in today, all the paper work done, everything, do it!" The aide hustles the young man off. The general looks at the second young man and asked, "What skills to you bring to the Air Force?"

The young man says, "I chop wood!"

"Son," the general replies, "we don't need wood choppers in the Air Force, what do you know how to do?"

"I chop wood!"

"Young man," huffs the general, "you are not listening to me, we don't need wood choppers, this is the 20th century!"

"Well," the young man says, "you hired my brother!"

"Of course we did," says the general, "he's a pilot!"

The young man rolls his eyes and says, "Dang it, I have to chop it before he can pile it!"

lol, gunny.

HarryP, are you for real in the military. That was my goal in the military was to become a pilot and fighter pilot was my first choise. Of course I dont have the PDF of the documents, is that what you want? I dont have time. But it is naieve to think that you can enlist and that will help you become a fighter pilot all it will do is waste precious time and make it more difficult to get your degree.

You need to cut the BS harryP.

Anyway I already suggested he talk to an air force officer recruiter and he will tell him the same thing I did. But the laundry list of requirements was to much for him to do so I guess he wont be a fighter pilot. Also you can have all your boxes checked and still not get in because they may not need anyone, so at the end of the day its still a crap shoot. It was worth it to me I knew I did everything I could and they just dident have any slots in the air force, thats life. And the whole army thing turned into a huge joke.

Enlisted can and do become officers on a regular basis in todays military. Some even qualify to become pilots. The Army Warrant Officer pilot initiatives are very real and many have taken that route. Granted they end up flying helio-go-flipters, but what the hey... its flying. I was fortunate enough to get to ride in the front seat of a Cobra, and it was an experience that I will never forget.

Ones dreams are indeed possible, if one is willing to see it through and do what is required to make it happen.

I guess the disconnect is in the "what is required" if you want to fly black hawks for the army then you are correct gunny (then again there is "what is required" and what makes you competitve someone with a degree is going to beat out someone with out one for a helicopter slot). But if you want to fly F-15s for the air force the only way to do that is through the list I gave at the begining of this post, sure you can get your butter bars while enlisted but how old will you be and more importantly what will your degree be in, the officer recruiter made it very clear that hard science and hard engineering degrees (ie a 4 year BS in chemistry, physics, chemical engineering (tooting my own horn), electrical engineering, etc he even went so far as to ask if the school was ABET accreditited) hold the most weight and make you the most competitive (and thoes degrees are far and few between, are very difficult to get and that difficulty goes up exponentially if you are trying to serve active duty and take thermodynamics, organic chemistry, physics 2, calc 3 and assorted labs in a semester). Its not what its about to make minimum qualifications its about what takes to actually be commpetitive. I had all of my i's dotted and t's crossed and there just wernt any slots open so even with all the qualifications its still a crap shoot. But in the end I still had an engineering degree and a pilots licence so I would not say I lost at all.

I got to ride in a T-38 during my time in AFROTC and I was sick but the capt said you eventually get over it. flying for the military was just not ment to be for me with no slots in the air force and the maze of BS in the army.

100% of all Warrant Officer Flight Training selectees are and have been Enlisted men and women.
Reference: United States Army Recruiting Command

http://www.usarec.army.mil/hq/warrant/

MOS 153A, Army Aviators, are/have been selected from the enlisted side of the house. The board results are public information, listing MOS, name, rank, and installation. Not one on any of the boards says rank CIV. So, a civilian has a zero percent chance. I have never said a civvie can be a pilot in the Army. So it isn't a maze, its a dead end. You have to prove your worth before Uncle Sam lets you fly a whirly-bird.

I understand that, the army does things backwards. I was speaking mainly from the air force side since this guy wants to fly fighters. If the route I chose to fly helicopters in the army was a dead end then the recrutier really threw me a curve ball. Anyway not that it is going to matter because the army is going to do what there going to do but walking down a trail with a ruck sack does not in any way prove you are competent to fly, the only way you can be proven competent to fly is in flight training and how you handle the helicopter and before flight school your flight time civilian should count for more than someone who was a 21B (or whatever infantry is I cant remember anymore) for 2 years.

Thats just my opinion, and I dont feel to bad for not making it in the military, I came out of the journy to my goal with an engineering degree and I almost have my pilots licence (going flying again today).

I think gunny is finally starting to understand what I have been saying

No, rrpearso, your recruiter told you the exact truth. Listen very closely, and don't read into it. (This is how people accuse all recruiters of lying.) You CAN apply to the WOFT program. You CAN be a pilot. CAN is not a promise, nor a guarantee. We, as humans, hear what we want. I say you can qualify for a $40K bonus, but at no time, did I guarantee it. If you get a $40K bonus, it will be in your contract. You even signed a statement that says you cannot and will not hold the military responsible for anything not listed in your contract. (DD Form 4/3 Annexes for Enlistment) Its a contract, therefore reviewed by lawyers and judges, and the verbage is precise. We've been writing these things for a long time, and know exactly what they say. If people would actually read it, NOT READ INTO IT, we'd all be happy. An 18 year old or a 26 year old college grad are equally stupid, inferring that CAN means WILL.

You are missing something though, rrpearso. Its not intended to be a gig on you, either. If someone passes basic, AIT, and succeeds in their MOS, it shows that they can complete a task. Also, the military knows that if you do fail out, wash out, etc. You have a skill to go back to doing that you are trained on. You don't go through all the hundreds of thousands of dollars in training for flight school, only to find out you have to be retrained into an MOS because you failed. Its just smart business. Think of it more like a big business, because we are. We are the largest employer of people 17-29 in the country. We don't have the money to piss away on "might make its." Its easier for them to prove their worth, then apply to flight school; not to mention cheaper.

That makes sense, I only wish they would have told me about the extra 6 years because thats kinda a big deal if your not planning on going carrer.

Also if you are already a pilot shouldent that be some indication that you have proven yourself before you even came to the military. Also isent graduating from the most difficult colleges in the US in engineering proving something.

Also wouldent it make sence to give direct commissions to engineers and pilots who are already qualified and may only need limited additional training for how the military engineers or flys.

rppearso, you are really stuck on stupid. Everything always becomes about you and no one else knows anything. It is useless to try to educate you and I have experience teaching, thus, the opinion.

"Against stupidity, the gods themselves struggle in vain."
J.C.F. VON SCHLLER, The maid of Orleans, 1801

quote:

Originally posted by HarryP:
rppearso, you are really stuck on stupid. Everything always becomes about you and no one else knows anything. It is useless to try to educate you and I have experience teaching, thus, the opinion.

Where's the head shaking/shoulders shrugging smiley?

Having slave labor is technically a smart buisness practice (providing it were not illegal) but it is still highly unethical. And like big buisness the military needs to be held accountable for things it does.

Yes, because the military bought all of its airmen, soldiers, sailors and marines at a slave auction. Those poor poor people in the military, living under the whip and being forced to sign up and re-enlist with a gun pointed at their heads.

Whats really pathetic about you rppearso, is that the majority of the people who realized they made a mistake by joining the military, actually stick it out and finish their enlistments and then get out.

Now everytime you go to a job interview and you get asked the question, "why were you discharged from the military with other than honorable conditions?" you're going to have to explain to them that you lack motivation and stability. Because everyone knows that employers love people who lack motivation and stability.

or I could say that they wanted me to sign up for an additional 6 years before entering flight school otherwise I would have to choose another OBC or sit and drink coffee until my term was up and picking another OBC was not an option for me, also I wouldent have finished OCS until like 4 years into my contract.

Thats because Nat'l Guard OCS is part-time OCS. Hence the length. Your Officer obligation of six years begins when you are commissioned. Regardless of component.

The additional 6 years before flight school is a crock of horseshit. You incur a 6 year obligation after flight school to meet your MSO (Military Service Obligation), because it should've taken you 2 years to complete OCS and Flight School. A total of 8 years, the current MSO for all components, all branches, all services. Besides, an officer can resign, so there was your exit clause. Shame you missed it, could've gotten that Honorable RE-1.