Hello all. I have a question concerning an incident I heard about and am seeking confirmation on.

On July 24th 1965 a USAF F-4C Phantom was shot down by a Soviet SA-2 Guideline SAM.

This was the first incidence of a SAM bringing down an American aircraft in Vietnam. Now the story I've heard (I think on the television version of Beyond the Wild Blue) was that Robert "Strange" McNamara at a press conference (I think on Capital Hill) ANNOUNCED that the US would respond to the 24th's shoot down by bombing the SAM site that had fired the offending missile. I know, I couldn't believe it either. Now the North Vietnamese are a lot of things but they weren't stupid. And the story I'm trying to track down says they moved the SAM batteries in question and replaced them with dummy radar trucks and white painted telephone poles on dummy launchers.

However things get even more bizarre because the USAF supposedly ran a recon mission over the target SAM site which revealed the dummy SAMs and the presence of HUNDREDS of AAA guns surrounding the site. However, somewhere up the chain of command the bombing mission was...

ORDERED ANYWAY INSPITE OF THE FACT THAT THE FLAK TRAP HAD BEEN
DISCOVERED!

I've purchased "Vietnam Air Losses: USAF, Navy, and Marine Corps Fixed-Wing Aircraft Losses in SE Asia 1961-1973" and confirmed the loss of five F-105 Thunderchiefs on July 28th 1965 in a raid on a series of SAM sites in NVN. Three pilots were killed, one captured and one rescued. So I've got the Thud Massacre part right.

I'm seeking any help anyone might have at confirming this story and tracking down sources on it for purposes of quotation. I've asked the hyperhistorian at digitalhistory.com and Dr. Mintz couldn't help and I've purchased several books on the Air War in Vietnam all to no avail.

Is there anyone here who can help with this matter or direct me to someone or something that can?

Many and sincere thanks in advance.

furioustote

That is indeed, very interesting.

I had not heard much on the matter, but Im going to start looking.

Update this thread if you learn anything new, please

I worked RF-4's in Nam and I can tell you they can take pictures at Mach speed that will show the cavities in your teeth. They had infra red cameras so nothing escaped their prying eyes. I used to go to the PIF tent (photo interpretation facility) and look at some of the photos. If it was there we knew it.

But knowing it is there is the easy part. The target has to be knocked out. Pilots put their lives in the hands of ECM (electronic counter measures). Yes, many knew they were flying into hell..

You can draw your own conclusion from what I've said.