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Location: Houston, TX
Registered: 10 September 2007
Posts: 5
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Well I hate to bore you guys with my sob story but I need advice and the more honest it is the better. He is my deal, my initial plan was to enter college and complete my BS Electrical Engineering/Physics minor. I had what I though was enough money saved for college (been working and saving since I was 15) which would last me the 4-5 years it takes to complete an engineering degree. I would then enter the AF as an Officer and make a career out of it, hopefully within a scientific or technical role. Well I'm halfway done and COMPLETELY out of money. I consulted financial aid but I'm only eligible for student loans which I do not want to indulge in. My parents offered to help me out but they have just dropped more than half their retirement on the family business, so out of respect of them thats not an option. I have transferable credits but I would like to know how realistic is it to complete my Bachelors if I enlist in the AF. This seems to be my only salvation aside from going into debt far worse than I am. I've been dropping $5000-6000/semester of my own money on school and I just cant see the light at the end of the tunnel. Some semesters I have had to sit out because of the lack of funds. At that rate Ill never be done. I've never thought twice about not joining the AF i just thought that I would be able to complete my Bachelors before entering. You guys have no idea how discouraging it is to see your plans fall to the waist side. This seems to be the only way to earn tuition money and develope skills along with fufilling my dream of serving the USAF. Give me your honest thoughts fellas.
Picture of patoloco
Location: Arizona
Registered: 08 May 2005
Posts: 1457
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It's all on you. You can finish a degree while enlisted, but it's very tough and you really have to want it and work a it. And it will depend on the job/MOS you choose and where you're stationed, who your boss is....It can take years if you don't have all the stars aligned and won't make yourself work for it.
Location: Houston, TX
Registered: 10 September 2007
Posts: 5
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I here what you are saying. I think I would rather take longer and gain experience in the USAF rather than increase my debt can come out making about the same as I would if I were to have stayed in the AF. I'm taking off from work today to speak with a recruiter. I This guy seeems to be pretty honest and I will make sure that any incentives he may mention are in my enlistment contract. Any other advice would be greatly appreaciated. Also whats the process for transitioning from Enlisted to an Officer and will I be eligible for the same payscale as those who came in as an officer?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: moddestmike,
Picture of thegunny
Registered: 24 January 2005
Posts: 2874
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Well, you are moving in a viable direction to meet your goal in life. Like Gunny said, its doable providing everything falls into place. As for transition process from enlisted to Officer? Once you are in and get your feet firmly planted, and after you have received your Air Force job training, you can start working towards just that. They have what is called a Career Planner (at least thats what we call them in the Marine Corps) who will be able to direct you on the best method to make the transition and what steps you will need to take. It ain't easy, but it is very possible as I have seen numerous Marines do just that. Ended up having to salute them when they returned.....


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The Gunny

PROUD TO BE AN INFIDEL
I haven't got a clue how to change people, but I am keeping a long list of prospective candidates just in case I figure it out!
Location: Houston, TX
Registered: 10 September 2007
Posts: 5
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Thanks for the info fellas.
Registered: 19 February 2006
Posts: 1240
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I think you need to first emancipate yourself from your parents and apply for financial aid and make up the rest in student loans, it is very important to stay involved with very highly technical degrees like electrical engineering and physics (I am a chemical engineer working on my PE licence right now and going back for a physics masters later). If your 2 years in you have just finished up all of your math, basic physics and chemistry as well as a few 200 level disipline classes. Do NOT join the military until your degree is complete, in engineering you need everything you learned in your first two years in order to be successful in the second 2 years so if you waste time messing around with being enlisted (a pee on basicly) you taking a chance of getting rusty on the material you need, as you know engineering and science are not basket weaving degrees, you need to be able to focus and pass your classes and retain the information if your messing around with some yokle E-5 from indiana as an enlisted person it is going to disrupt your study and it will take forever to finish your degree (not to mention most schools will start recycling your credits after 7 years, they figure you need to revisit calculus if you havent taken it in over 7 years and they are probably right), if you can get some financial aid student loans are not that big of a deal it seems like alot now but 30-40K is really not much when you get a condo, a car and the other nice things associated with being an engineer and a professional but at the same time the best investment you can make. You can try joining the air national guard and they will pay for school and you only go one weekend a month but you still have to go through basic and AIT so you would likely have to take a semester off which in engineering equates to taking a year off unless you can fill that semester with electives (maybe some physics minor classes) your school might be different but some of my 300 and 400 level classes were only offered once a year so you dropped anything but your core classes because you did not want to be set back a year at least if you drop electives you are only there for an extra semester. When you finish your degree I would recommend going air guard OTS first and then going active if you like it, I was in the same mind set you are except I was trying to be a pilot and found out its easier to buy a high performance plane myself than play the militarys game, if I had done the air guard instead of the army guard I would probably still be in (asside from the fact that air gaurd are still exposed to deployment so I probably would have got out anyhow) with the air guard you go through one OTS training and are commissioned the army you have to attend basic and OCS which doubles your exposure to hazing. Alot of people on this site are hardliner enlisted with little to no education a few are officers but with the old school mentality and doubtfully have highly technical BS degrees in engineering or science (although I have met a few when I was in AFROTC (which is another option by the way) that were hardliners).
Picture of thegunny
Registered: 24 January 2005
Posts: 2874
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yeah listen to rrpearso. he's got all the answers Wink

You were doing great up until you started in on your usual rant about hazing and such.

Its not a sin to be a hardliner when it comes to serving your country with honor and distinction.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: thegunny,


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The Gunny

PROUD TO BE AN INFIDEL
I haven't got a clue how to change people, but I am keeping a long list of prospective candidates just in case I figure it out!
Registered: 19 February 2006
Posts: 1240
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I dont know if your a christian gunny but you should read Amos 3:3 There is a line in the sand biblicly speaking between being responsible and getting the job done and malaice/beligerant behavior. Just because some sgt or some officers for that matter can come up with a creative reason they did something messed up to a E-1 does not make it right (ie some sort of invented "corrective training" instead of just writing up an article 15 like your suppost to do, but where is the fun in writing up an article 15 you dont get to haze the crap out of some pee on right gunny). If your not a christian you can do whatever you want just dont expect someone like me to put up with it (amos 3:3), and dont call it honor.
Picture of thegunny
Registered: 24 January 2005
Posts: 2874
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yeah, like I said you would know.

Reckon you missed the part where I was paying you a compliment huh?


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The Gunny

PROUD TO BE AN INFIDEL
I haven't got a clue how to change people, but I am keeping a long list of prospective candidates just in case I figure it out!
Registered: 19 February 2006
Posts: 1240
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Despite popular opinion on this site I do know what im talking about I appriciate the you were doing great statement but it still blows my mind that you can defend irrisponsible behavior and call it "training" or even go so far as to call it honorable, it was pretty easy to tell what was training and what was hazing in basic and the same would have been true in OCS but they all look out for each other to do the wrong thing instead of holding each other accountable. And then the people that get fed up with it are quitters and whinners because they refuse to tolerate fraternity style hazing.

I think the OP needs to be aware of what lies beneth. Right now he is operating in an intellectual enviornment and just needs some financing, the military will pay for school but there are very serious draw backs that far exceed some student loan debt and he needs to be aware of that. Once you get sucked into the military education takes a back seat to the militarys needs, and this day in time in the civilian world an electrical engineering degree with or without the physics minor is pretty darn valuable.
Location: Houston, TX
Registered: 10 September 2007
Posts: 5
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quote:
Originally posted by rppearso:
I think you need to first emancipate yourself from your parents and apply for financial aid and make up the rest in student loans, it is very important to stay involved with very highly technical degrees like electrical engineering and physics (I am a chemical engineer working on my PE licence right now and going back for a physics masters later). If your 2 years in you have just finished up all of your math, basic physics and chemistry as well as a few 200 level disipline classes. Do NOT join the military until your degree is complete, in engineering you need everything you learned in your first two years in order to be successful in the second 2 years so if you waste time messing around with being enlisted (a pee on basicly) you taking a chance of getting rusty on the material you need, as you know engineering and science are not basket weaving degrees, you need to be able to focus and pass your classes and retain the information if your messing around with some yokle E-5 from indiana as an enlisted person it is going to disrupt your study and it will take forever to finish your degree (not to mention most schools will start recycling your credits after 7 years, they figure you need to revisit calculus if you havent taken it in over 7 years and they are probably right), if you can get some financial aid student loans are not that big of a deal it seems like alot now but 30-40K is really not much when you get a condo, a car and the other nice things associated with being an engineer and a professional but at the same time the best investment you can make. You can try joining the air national guard and they will pay for school and you only go one weekend a month but you still have to go through basic and AIT so you would likely have to take a semester off which in engineering equates to taking a year off unless you can fill that semester with electives (maybe some physics minor classes) your school might be different but some of my 300 and 400 level classes were only offered once a year so you dropped anything but your core classes because you did not want to be set back a year at least if you drop electives you are only there for an extra semester. When you finish your degree I would recommend going air guard OTS first and then going active if you like it, I was in the same mind set you are except I was trying to be a pilot and found out its easier to buy a high performance plane myself than play the militarys game, if I had done the air guard instead of the army guard I would probably still be in (asside from the fact that air gaurd are still exposed to deployment so I probably would have got out anyhow) with the air guard you go through one OTS training and are commissioned the army you have to attend basic and OCS which doubles your exposure to hazing. Alot of people on this site are hardliner enlisted with little to no education a few are officers but with the old school mentality and doubtfully have highly technical BS degrees in engineering or science (although I have met a few when I was in AFROTC (which is another option by the way) that were hardliners).

Again thanks for the advice, FTR I have not lived with my parents since I was 17. My job pays right above the maximum amount of income required to recieve financial aid grants. I do not wish to take out student loans but my options are limited. The scholarship I recieve each month is barely enough to cover books. Not to mention I have other bills to pay. 800/rent is rediculous.
Picture of thegunny
Registered: 24 January 2005
Posts: 2874
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Like I said, joining up is very doable for you. Its been done countless times and those that wanted a degree succeeded in obtaining their degree.


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The Gunny

PROUD TO BE AN INFIDEL
I haven't got a clue how to change people, but I am keeping a long list of prospective candidates just in case I figure it out!
Registered: 19 February 2006
Posts: 1240
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If you choise to join I would join the air guard then you have a much better chance of actually having the time to accomplish such a rigourus degree program. I do not believe gunny that countless people in active duty have gotten rigours engineering degrees maybe basket weaving degrees but not engineering degrees and even the basket weaving degrees likely were not gained in a timely fassion. You need to weight your options, does your job pay more than what you would get in federal aid? The military should be a absolute last resort not student loans, the military has student loan reimbursment programs if you enlist with your degree then you dont have to worry about juggling school/military and life.
Picture of patoloco
Location: Arizona
Registered: 08 May 2005
Posts: 1457
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rppearso, how would you know an of this? You didn't even serve except in training.

Just a warning to you Mike. This guy never made it through the training pipeline in the National Guard and never served on active duty. He's talking through his ass.
Registered: 19 February 2006
Posts: 1240
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Thank you patoloco for the completely useless comment that provided no real usefull information. BTW I hold a degree in chemical engineering from the colorado school of mines and am working on my Professional engineering (PE)licence in chemical engineering, I was in AFROTC for 2 years in college and was in the army national guard for 2 years, I did quite a bit of research on all sorts of military programs, I learned what the broucher said and then I learned reality. The only branch I dont know a whole lot about are the marines and navy. Patoloco is right about one thing, I was smart enough to not go to iraq or serve on active duty and I believe that thoes experences would not have given me much more knowlage just more dirt sandwichs which adds no real value. There is also a program called green to gold in the army (and I would not doubt the air force has this as well) you apply for the program and if the planets align the military will pay for your bachelors degree and you will come back as an officer you have to go through the local AROTC as well so its basicly an ROTC scholarship that they release you from active duty to do, this program is very difficult to get into and is a total crap shoot and in my mind is for people who college was an after thought for, they joined the military and decided college is a good idea if they want any sort of life so in a desperate attempt to improve there life they sign up for green to gold, we had a guy in our fraternity that was a green to gold guy he was way cool and graduated from mines with a civil engineering degree but he was a rare case. Anyways what was that again about me not knowing what im talking about, I know all to well, im just not willing to eat anymore dirt sandwichs because I dont have to, I paid for my own education and I dont owe anyone anything (other than student loans which I pay on like im suppost to). The military got one chance to haze me in basic and when they wanted to do it again in OCS I said no thanks the english lit guy can have it im out.

The biggest deception of the military is they tell you the benifits in the broucher but fail to mention the degredation of your quality of life on a day to day basis.
Picture of patoloco
Location: Arizona
Registered: 08 May 2005
Posts: 1457
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Ooooh. I've got a degree in Strategic Intelligence and a minor in Law Enforcement from the UA. Served in the Marine Corps for 22 years. I've been on six continents and in too many countries to count. I've negotiated with terrorists, caused the rise and fall of nations, been responsible for the arrests of several drug cartel members, participated in the hunt for Carlos Escobar, rubbed elbows with coup leaders and presidents, personally congratulated by the director of the FBI, responsible for the deaths of dozens of terrorists, saved dozens of lives, and f*cked you mother. Go suck a dick.

Mike, sorry for crapping on your thread.
Picture of thegunny
Registered: 24 January 2005
Posts: 2874
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Guns, doncha know? according to his line of thought even if we have a degree/s we are worthless because we didn't become Officers during our career.

He'll never finger out why we would prefer to be career Staff NCO's versus becoming another zero.


SEMPER FI
The Gunny

PROUD TO BE AN INFIDEL
I haven't got a clue how to change people, but I am keeping a long list of prospective candidates just in case I figure it out!
Registered: 19 February 2006
Posts: 1240
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None of that is even remotely related to engineering or science patoloco and im so scared that you make childish remarks at the end of your posts but that does not surprise me from a 22 yr marine, you dident cause the rise or fall of anything your one man and the united states military would not have its capabilities with out our weapons systems, satalites and numerous other technologies. Strategic Intelligence what the hell is that, how many free credits did you get just for being in the marines. We have not properly negotiated with terrorists since Japan in WW2 all we do now is go out and play army.
Picture of patoloco
Location: Arizona
Registered: 08 May 2005
Posts: 1457
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OK, retardo, one more response, then it's back to ignore you go....It's just that you're so freakin' dumb, I can't stop myself.

Of course I got a buttload of credits out of my military experience and training, didn't you read what I did? Duhr. And, pssst, one man can cause the rise and fall of nations without firing a single shot (well, at least without an American firing a single shot). It's called utilizing STRATEGIC INTELLIGENCE and causing other nations and agents to act for you.....although, it wasn't JUST me, but I did make a significant difference.

All YOU did was go out and play army, and you have zero experience to speak of. "We have not negotiated with terrorists since Japan in WWII" is such an ignorant statement I don't even know how to respond.

Sorry again, Mike. Crap. What was the question?
Registered: 19 February 2006
Posts: 1240
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So how does this relate to engineering or science?
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