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Originally posted by Amvet91Alpha:
Billy you volunteered yerself..let us know when you can how it all turns out.

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I'm sure things will roll out I mean turn out just fine

FIRE IT UP!!!!

Did I say that out loud?

I'm a ex-police officer, mostly traffic, and have worked in drug and alcohol programs.

The trajedy that both bring are beyond belief.

Marijuana has been found to be an introduction drug now for other types of illegal drugs.

Legalizing the drug will not bring about anymore money to the government because the what it will increase family abuse, addiction, crime, listlessness, etc. Paying for all that will increase.

A great majority of those who I have seen treated for their drug addiction and their related criminal activity to support it or having been caught under the influence that have gone to prison end up back there. More so because one, they are stigmitized by society for having a prison record, two, because of this they are stuck in low-end jobs which they pay very little and are mostly dead-end jobs, and three once treatment is over and in some cases their six months of follow-up, if available, is over, they are just not part of the main stream. The majority just violate probation or commit another crime to re-enter an environment that they understand and which gives them social contact and a since of self-worth! Unbelievable as that may sound to most of ya.

They have lost their families, condemned most of them to the lower class of our society; causing even more trajedy and resentment! (I have seen generations of druggies!)

There was a study done years ago that showed that when prohibition was around crime disappeared. There wasn't any family abuse, people held jobs, police departments were laying off police officers, ect. We even have money to throw away as a family and as a government. It was also reported that as a result of prohibition and the reduction of crime that after WWI in the '20s that Europe was in a severe depression and we brought them out of it by loaning large amounts of money do to less being spent on alcohol related problems!
The only reason prohibition was ended do to the fact that the thrill seekers going to the speak easies, were the rich, spoiled brats! Their influencial parents bribed their congressman end prohibition for that very reason. Can you imagine the amount of crime and family problems alone even alcohol brings about let alone drugs. Al Capone said it himself that the only reason he used alcohol, because he was paying $12 million dollars a year to bribe politicians in Chicago, was so that it lowered the inhibitions of those who then were more susceptible to the prostitution and gambling where the real money was!

Great post Dane. . .I think you brought something to the arguement that we haven't really heard yet. The cause and effect is something that I don't think many people have given a thought of. The effect of more marijuana is the hidden costs that we don't see like a law enforcement officer does.

Sorry this ended up a two-parter only in that while replying here I forgot to worn my daughter that it was time to catch the bus! They are on a delayed time schedule due to weather.

Anyway,

When I was leaving the service back in '73, I took a police academny in the state of Virginia. while in class, the governor's physician's son was picked up for a marijuana charge. At that time marijuana was life! Needless-to-say that changed quickly! Mark Twain use to say it best: We send our crooks to Washington, because it gets'm off the streets and we can watch'em there! Now, we don't even bother with that!

I use to have a buddy while in the military who use to say why don't we legalize pot and make some tax money off it and besides we can't defeat it anyways. I told him than maybe we ought to legalize a lot of things we can't beat such as child porn, snuff movies etc. It was the only time he ever lost!

For those of you who believe marihuana is good for medicinal reasons. Well, that is the road to legalizing it. The real reason we lack a lot cures or treatments is based on the arogance of doctors (yes, many are going back to the old home rememodies as they realize there was a lot of truth there) but more so the because of the Pharmaceuticals companies! They are a big business and greed is their most important product! Paying a politician is cheaper, research is expensive! You all know what I am talking about there!

I could expound on a lot of areas here but I think most of you know what I am talking about as far as the trajedies here! Crime, families, etc but most just touch of just the aspect of driving under the influence and miss the more important part above.

I hear a lot of you talking about personal experience. Well I say most of you are better than average as far as society goes and may even be able to control yourselve! However, there are a lot out there that cannot! Especially the teenagers who ruin themselves before they even have a chance in society! I have worked both adult programs and teenage ones.

For those of you that talk about the pain issue, I know pain I live with it everyday! I had thirteen ortho doctors at Fort Bragg spontaneously ask me how I could stand the pain! Like I told them do I have a choice or do I get off my ass and support the family I have! Now after Desert Storm and age, I can't even take a pain relievers as it causes asthma and vasomotor-rhinitis! If their is a will there is a way!

So the "social ills" that are out there are not worth even one of them ever being legalized as far as I am concerned!

PS: I almost forgot to those of you who say they would rather be around a person in combat who was a drug user rather than a alcoholic; do not undertand that drunks are watched in the drunk tank because they can die faster on you than can a druggie! ...and that is not distinguishing between a drunk or just plain old alcoholic!

Thanks for listening!

Dane you say crime rate was down during prohibition,

If so somebody forgot to tell Capone and Moran about it, the underworld made a fortune on it.

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Originally posted by Dane46:

For those of you that talk about the pain issue, I know pain I live with it everyday! I had thirteen ortho doctors at Fort Bragg spontaneously ask me how I could stand the pain! Like I told them do I have a choice or do I get off my ass and support the family I have! Now after Desert Storm and age, I can't even take a pain relievers as it causes asthma and vasomotor-rhinitis! If their is a will there is a way!

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Sounds like you need to roll up a big 'ol doob right away.

Nobody dies from pot. Never have so far. Oxygen is the only gateway drug.

You are right, Billy! The crime was centered around large cities, especially Chicago, and has been sensationalized ever since! Ness, etc. were trying to make a name for themselves you can't do that if there isn't a problem! The rest of the country experienced a drastic drop in crime!

Thud, no, the only thing I would do with a joint is stick up their ass!

Actually, while the stories that are used for dramatic effect in books and movies are about Capone and his ilk, prohibition cause a lot of rise or many organized crime families..and it wasn't just in the cities. A great many rural areas made and 'ran' moonshine. While it is true that some domestic crime went down, it did level off and had begun to rise again by the time prohibition was repealed.

I find it interesting that you did compare alcohol with pot in a way I haven't seen done in a while, though.

Disagree with about every point you made, but it was a new perspective on this thread.

They ran moonshine where I am from in SW Ohio! It was never that big!

I see at what points would those be? I thought this was a debate?

A lot of what I am talking about as far as related ills and results I have seen.

quote:

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Originally posted by Dane46:
They ran moonshine where I am from in SW Ohio! It was never that big!

I see at what points would those be? I thought this was a debate?

A lot of what I am talking about as far as related ills and results I have seen.

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Know corn liquor country.. Had a back hills step uncle.. Anyhoo.. Saw 'Gator' the other night.. Brought back fond memories.

Okay, first of all the whole 'pot is a gateway drug' thing I think is a myth. The only reason it is a 'gateway' drug is because it is illegal..if it were legal, people wouldn't go near anyone that would lure them into heavier drugs. They would openly grow their own or go to the store and buy it. It would be regulated just like tobacco and alcohol.

Now as far as violence goes, I have not ever heard of ANYONE going into a violent rage under the influence of marijuana alone..they might have macramed their ass to the chair, but that is about the extent of it. People under the effects of marijuana are 'mellow' and laid back, they don't start fights, they don't beat their wives, etc.

more later..

This is a tough debate. I have seen first hand the effects of cancer, MS, and several other debilitating diseases. I have also seen first hand the results of drivers who were high behind the wheel. Both can be devastating.
The original question was essentially asking the opinion as to whether pot should be legalized. Bringing in debates about alcohol and the effects is in some ways mixing apples and oranges. Why not ask if alcohol should be legal? Ha! but that is another debate for another day.
Anyway back to the original thought.
I have taken care of patients who due to nausea, pain, lack of appetite were deteriorating so rapidly that our "modern medicine" could not catch up. The bottom line is sometimes the meds just do not work. For reasons that are not entirely clear marijuanna does work. They have theories about what compounds in that illegal smoke helps, but as of now they are not sure. I hate to tell you folks but there are alot of legal meds out there, that help a variety of ailments and yet they don't know why....think I'm lying?? check out a physicians desk reference. If those medications were pulled because we do not have a concrete understanding as to how they work, millions would be debilitated. Now should every cancer patient be given a script and a plant?? No I'm not saying that at all.
I do however think that there is a certain segement of the population who would receive a benefit, if in some circumstances, it was a treatment option.
Now, if this were to occur would there be misuse and abuse? Absolutely. But lets face it, that is occuring already, not just with marijuanna but with already legal drugs and substances. Why can we not find a happy medium? Currently if I am pulled over and I have a bottle of vicodin that is not mine, or that I do not have a script for, I could go to jail. It is illegal for me to have that substance. Why could there not be a law which would treat "medical marijuanna" the same??
I do not think marijuanna as a whole should be legalized for the general public, any more than I think anyone should be able to go the the local drug store and pick up a bottle of vicodin. But I do think it should be an option for those who have no other options.

That folks is my .02

as one can see by the date on this thread some time has passed and with all the new folks in here, thought i'd get this one back into view to see what ya'll think about it.....

Well to be honest, the case for making it legal seems pretty strong as it's psychoactive effects have not been shown to be significantly stronger than those of alcohol, which we all know, is a bad idea to make illegal, or should I say, prohibit. Also pot can kill you, if kills you in the same way cigarettes do, inhaling any type of smoke is bad for your body, simple. Though in other non-smoked forms there has been no research showing it has effects any more harmful that alcohol. Some studies have even shown in non-smoked consumption it may be less harmful than alcohol. So to be honest I do not see any major reason why it should not be legalized, and taxes on it like we have on cigarettes might actually be able to put a dent in our current administrations debt spending.

I think it is an important point to make that many doctor's aren't money-grubbing duchebags and actually care about the patient.

Anyway, I think that the real argument for legalizing marijuana is not for it's "medicinal purposes" or the rest of that bs, but for the simple fact of it is not a bad drug. Alcohol and tobacco are barbaric and crippling drugs. They physically addict people and ruin lives (including my family's). Pot, on the other hand, makes the user- at worst- a paranoid ****. It doesn't turn him into an angry drunk, or a crack-whore. The general affect is relaxing the user.

Honestly, I am FOR the prohibition of alcohol and tobacco, but also for the legalization of marijuana. It can be regulated, and the different forms of ingestion can be legalized if one is found to be too harmful, but honestly, TOBACCO IS ALREADY LEGALIZED. Anti-weed supporters lobby off the "harmful affects" of taking in the smoke, and yet are perfectly indifferent to cigarettes, cigars, and smokeless tobacco.

Perhaps the big business that is manipulating the population is not Big Medicine, but Big Tobacco and Big Alcohol

Ok also, while I agree Cannabis isn't worse that Alcohol or Tobacco, I don't think that Alcohol and Tobacco are much worse than Cannabis either.

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Originally posted by Hyperion:
Ok also, while I agree Cannabis isn't worse that Alcohol or Tobacco, I don't think that Alcohol and Tobacco are much worse than Cannabis either.

Especially not alcohol.

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Originally posted by Hyperion:
Ok also, while I agree Cannabis isn't worse that Alcohol or Tobacco, I don't think that Alcohol and Tobacco are much worse than Cannabis either.

You know...it doesn't matter what drug it is...if it's being abused...it's BAD. I would have agreed with you until I started dealing with a nephew who, contrary to what he says, is smoking weed on a daily basis. He is a compulsive liar, and has stolen from me at least once. If he needs money to buy weed, he doesn't give a schit where he gets it. He's a lazy azz, who would rather lay around all day and stay smoked up than get, and keep a job. He has two young sons who sit second fiddle to his drug use. He is currently staying at my house, but on his last leg for a place to stay at my house. The next time I see him may be the last time he stays at my house. One thing I can NOT tolerate is a thief and a liar, and he has proven to be both.

Who gives a damn who thinks which drug is worse than the other?!?! Abuse is the key word here. I've known casual smokers who would take a couple of hits off of a two hitter pipe at the end of the day just like some people have a couple of drinks to knock the edge off. I don't have a problem with that, but I do have a problem with people who have to drink an entire case of beer, or smoke weed until they can't see straight. When your habit dictates what happens in the rest of your life, something is very VERY wrong!

GraeWolpe-great to see you as matter a fact I brought our old Hunting post up last night but some one covered it up.Back to the subject no matter what some people say Weed is a bad drug just like Cigrettes and Acohol not many know how to control any of them most of these people out on the street are Weed smokers they don't have a job and don't want one and if they can not get Weed they will use other light drugs such as Paint and eventualy turn to harder stuff.