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"Dozy Old Fat Git"
Registered: 16 February 2005
Posts: 1423
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This from John Ibbotson:

" Rioting by people in suits and ties is the worst possible public relations disaster.
When scruffy young men in jeans throw rocks at police, those of us watching from afar might not know where our sympathies should lie. The police may bedefending a corrupt regime or simply trying to restore order; the demostrators may be students fighting for freedom or mere thugs.
But when lawyers - lawyers - take to the streets, overseas opinion swings massively in their support. They are the very definition of an educated middle class. If they are risking a crack over the head to protest the latest ' state of emergency ', then the real emergency must be what is happening to the state.

And so Pervez Musharraf can expect no outside public support as he tries to save his regime through force, and any Western politician who fails to condemn the Pakistani President's actions courrts condemnation by his own people.

Though it is hard to imagine George Bush could sink any lower in the esteem of his countrymen.

From the Mediterranean Sea to Punjab, the Bush administration confronts an unbroken string of foreign policy failures. Strife in the Palestinian Authority; civil war in Iraq, Iran resurgent; much of Afghanistan insurgent; and now, Pakistan plunged into repression and chaos.

It almost got this bad for Jimmy carter. His well-meaning but foolish policies led to the fall of the Shah, unrest throughout Central America, and the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. but, at least, president Carter could point to the Camp David Peace Accords, George Bush can point to much less.

even before it managed to complie its own impressive record of failure, the bush admionistration set out to dismantle many of the successes of its predecessors by withdrawing from the Kyoto Protocvol, the land mines treaty and the anit-bal;listic missile treaty. Even before the attacks on New York and Washington, the President had strainted long-standing alliances and worsened relations with Russia [ over missile defence ] and China [ over the downing of surveillance aircraft ]

His neglect of Afghanistan after the Taliban were toppled allowed the Al Quaeda and Taliban leadership to escape and regroup, and contributed to the instability that now leaves Pakistan on the brink.

Two of the three members of Mr. Bush's ' axis of evil ', Iran and North Korea, have only strengthened by his confrontational policies. the killing in Darfur goes on, however much of Mr. Bush protests. america's standing in the world is at its nadir.

for the moment, all that has to be set aside. Mr. Musharraf is infintely preferable to the mullahs who would replace him. But his determination to remain the head of both the military and the government is placinhg Canadian and other NATO forces in Afghanistan at risk. the Pakistani army has not only failed to root out insurgents in the country's borderlands, but reports from the region say the insurgents are themselves expanding in reach,infiltrating the cities, giving the Taliban a secure base and source of fresh recruits for operations in Afghanistan. By redeploying the military to support the state of emergency, observers fear Mr. Musharraf is bound to further weaken the government's control over its own territory and people.

Daniel Markey, a senior fellow at the Council on Froegin Relations, reflected the Washington consensus yesterday at a press briefing when he declared that the Bush Administration's priority will and must be to pressure Musharraf for a clear time line leading to early parliamentary elections.
but as violence escalates, hopes for accomodation deteriorate. And as they deteriorate, India braces for the possiblity of mass migrations of Pakistani refugees across its border, while Afghanistan braces for renewed and strengthened Taliban incursions among returnees.

All thanks to Mr. Bush's ill conceived and poorly executed strategy to confront the legitimate threat of Islamic extremism.
the Bush adminsitration is not utterly bereft of foreign policy sucesses. Libya has stopped making mischief, while democracy in Europe has spread east to Ukraine.
the president can point to a basket of new trade agreements, and the United States is leading an agressive and well-funded campaign to combat HIV/AIDS in Africa.
But it's the thin gruel when set beside the failures and fears that now infest Beirut and Baghdad, Khanahar and Karachi.

Geoge Bush will have much to answer before the bar of history. And there's still more than a year to go.


There I was , at the head of the old 68th...
Picture of thegunny
Registered: 24 January 2005
Posts: 3307
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Bush presses Musharraf to hold elections

For once I wouldn't mind being a Pakistani policeman, getting the chance to take it out physically on such a large mass of lawyers! Too bad American lawyers don't rise up so they can get beaten down!


SEMPER FI
The Gunny

PROUD TO BE AN INFIDEL

Those who live by the sword get shot by those who don’t.

“The Meek shall inherit the earth….after I’m through with it.”

A pessimist's blood type is always b-negative
"Curmudgeon"
Picture of HarryP
Location: Washtenaw County, Michigan
Registered: 21 January 2005
Posts: 1892
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While I have sympathy with the plight of the people – I do admit that a crowd of lawyers getting beaten does appeal to me in a rather dark way.


"It is fatal to enter any war without the will to win it"
DOUGLAS MacARTHUR, 1952
Registered: 19 February 2006
Posts: 1286
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people always hate lawyers until they come to a place in life where they have to employ one. I dont know that educated middle class people would "rise up" in america, I think they would just leave and there would be no one to fill the gap and it would plunge this nation into a second world status, that is exactly what happened in germany no one really rose up they just left, protesting is stupid it rarely produces results and often has negitive consequences for thoes involved.
"Dozy Old Fat Git"
Registered: 16 February 2005
Posts: 1423
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protests don't work, reppearso?

So I guess the American Revolution, the French Revolution, The Rise of Garibaldi, let's not forget Mussolini and Hitler,[who started out as ' protesters' to the corrupt/ineffectual regimes in power ] Ghandi...the Soviet Revolution..the Mujahadeen against Russia, the Taliban..all those were 'exceptions' to your hypothesis that protests rarely work..

I could give you some other examples if your brain could stop farting long enough...


There I was , at the head of the old 68th...
Picture of Weatherman1956
Location: Where America's day begins.
Registered: 08 March 2005
Posts: 983
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http://www.theonion.com/content/news/nations_snowmen_march_against

The world would be a friendlier place if every city on earth had one...

quote:
Nation's Snowmen March Against Global Warming


WASHINGTON, DC—Braving balmy temperatures and sunny skies, millions of scarfless snowmen and snowwomen gathered in cities across the world Tuesday to raise public awareness about the heavy toll global warming is taking on their health and well-being.

Snowmen from across the nation gather at the Washington Monument to protest global warming.
According to organizers of marches in Washington, Atlanta, Montreal, Berlin, London, Reykjavik, and Moscow, global warming is the primary cause of the steep reduction in the snowman population throughout the Northern Hemisphere. Demonstrators worldwide called on their governments to take more aggressive steps to reduce the effects of climate change.

Organizers estimated the crowd at more than 375,000, but D.C. Police Commissioner Charles Stacey estimated turnout at 30,000 whole snowmen, with scattered rounded abdomens accounting for an additional 5,000. Atlanta organizers and police agree that all demonstrators had melted by 11 a.m.

Joe Centigrade, president of the Advocates For Beings Of Frozen Precipitation, spoke at a mass rally Tuesday on Washington's National Mall.

"The unseasonably warm winters of the recent past are a clear indication of a real environmental threat to humans and their frozen simulacra," said Centigrade, his coals arranged in a frowning pattern. "As snowmen and snowwomen, we accept the inevitability of melting, but the actions of man are causing us to evaporate well before our time."

Speakers at the Washington rally included a Chicago snowwoman who had lost three snowchildren to warm temperatures, the Rev. Jesse Jackson, and Larry Chilly, formerly a 6-foot-tall, triple-segmented Muncie, IN snowman, who had been reduced to a slushy head.

Centigrade told the slowly melting snowcrowd that as recently as 15 years ago, the average life span of a snowperson built in late December was three weeks to a month. Today, that same snowperson has an average life span of two weeks.

Centigrade also recounted stories of once-jolly snowmen unable to keep their carrot noses in their fast-melting faces, and of others who were made of only two undersize segments.

"In many regions of New England today, there's not even enough snow on the ground to make snowballs, much less a torso," Centigrade said. "Instead, some snowmen are stuck together with slush and leaves rather than pure, white snow. We must take steps now to end their suffering."

Bearing signs with such slogans as "You Can't Build A Snowman With Rain" and "Winter = Life," the crystalline-ice protestors, many of whom had chartered refrigerated tractor-trailers and ice-cream trucks to travel to the mass protest, complained that popular stereotypes about snowmen obscure and trivialize the crisis.

Larry Chilly speaks out against mankind's global irresponsibility.
"Humans sneer at us, 'If you want to stay intact, go to the North Pole and live with Santa,'" said Susie Flakeman, a Thunder Bay, Ontario snowwoman waiting in line with hundreds of others to use a Porta-Freezer. "But less than one-half of 1 percent of us ever receive that honor. Most of us end up victims of the scourge that almost killed Frosty: man-made climate change."

The protest was largely peaceful, disrupted only by a disturbing incident in which one distraught snowman hurled himself into the reflecting pool of the National Mall. He suffered third-degree slush on over 90 percent of his body before rescuers could recover him. He was rushed to a local meat locker where he was pronounced melted on arrival.

Some scientists refuted the snowbeings' claims regarding global warming.

"Throughout history, the earth has endured periods of temperature fluctuation," said Dr. Harley Morrison, a biochemist who has advised President Bush on scientific issues. "Also, there have already been several major blizzards throughout North America this season alone. I made a snowman myself, and he lasted for several weeks."

Late word arrived Tuesday evening that the Moscow protest was violently dispersed by riot police bearing hot-water hoses and snow blowers. Moscow officials said the snowmen were illegally blocking pedestrian traffic near the Kremlin and causing people to slip and fall in their slushy wakes. Snow leaders, including Centigrade, condemned the crackdown.

"Those of us who remember the Icelandic anti-heated-sidewalk riots of the 1980s know that the powers that be despise and fear snowmen who fight for their rights," Centigrade said. "They'd rather kill the messengers than face the fact that our ecosystems are changing irreparably. We're prepared to stay in D.C. as long as it takes until Congress agrees to listen to our demands."

Before he could conclude his remarks, Centigrade's face slid off.



I saw this and I thought of your Post...
So-Sorry...


Hafa Adai!
Registered: 19 February 2006
Posts: 1286
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Most of thoes references you stated entailed much more than a protest, a revolution is an armed/or unarmed hostile take over not throwing rocks in the streets. As long as the autorities maintain order its just a protest which produces no results. There are usually alot of other factor involved for a revolution to take place, most of the success of a revolution does not take place in the streets throwing rocks at national guard it occured behind doors and must be orgainized enough to over throw the powers that be who usually have much greater resources the best time for a revolution to occure is some sort of economic depression. But you already knew that you just wanted to flame.
"Dozy Old Fat Git"
Registered: 16 February 2005
Posts: 1423
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not to sound pedantic,[ well, yes, actually ] but.. all revolutions begin with protests...it is the extent and popularity of the first that leads to the second..

but, of course, you know all that as you are the leader of a protest, yourself, having risen up against the crass overlords of the military training establishment, unfortunately without the support of minions to overthrow the masters...

oh, and I'm not FLAMING you.. I'm protesting your actions...

you want fries with that?


There I was , at the head of the old 68th...
Picture of SULLY1
Location: South Western Colorado
Registered: 24 November 2005
Posts: 1208
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http://www.canada.com/edmontonjournal/news/story.html?i...e29b44cdc4e9&k=69009 I found this fitting for this particular post I wonder how many Headstones on both sides of our Northern boder will have Blame Bush written on them as the last word It is so easy to blame others for their failure.Or at least in this case their Country's short comings.
Picture of Aufklarer
Registered: 06 September 2006
Posts: 485
MSN does not support status - click here for the profile.
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quote:
Originally posted by rppearso:
a revolution is an armed/or unarmed hostile take over not throwing rocks in the streets.


No, inbred. A revolution can be any change brought about society. ot just a change in government. That's why, for example, we have a "Medical revolution" when most of the older ideas about medicine were brought down and replaced with new ideas.

Revolutions can be peaceful too, but I don't expect you to understand that, as you are too busy plotting the downfall of the military to worry yourself about these things. Roll Eyes


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