Saw the movie, and was wondering-

Would the GI that fell overboard really be left to drown? Would he swim there for hours until he succumbed to the freezing cold waters and aching muscles?

That's hard to believe. My dad replied "war is hell" but I think those are incredibly shallow words. You can't use that as your secuirity blanket for why things happen.

Thoughts?

Ronnec:

sad and upsettinga it may be, this is SOP.. You can't turn a ship on a dime, by the time it gets around to look for the fallen man it may well be too late.. Especially if the ships are in a tight formation and on a deadline toward a strategic objective, to take a ship out of the loop and screw up the others in the timetable and logistics of moving so many to look for just one guy is not, sadly, worth the loss of the ultimate campaign goal... To quote Star Trek " The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or one ."

So, bottom line, the soldier is toast, to save the rest and the mission..

fortunes of war, my son.

damn good film, BTW, but Leters from Iwo Jima is better...kudos and tons of fan mail to Clint for turning out this duo..can't wait for the deluxe multi-disc collector pack with bonus features to hit the Blockbuster shelves.. Hope it gets more than a nod at Oscar time...

Ronnec

You have to keep things in proper context. Big difference between wartime operations and peacetime operations. Think about it. Ain't nothing shallow or callous about your dad's reply to this question you posed to him. War is indeed HELL.

Don't make the mistake of trying to understand war from movies alone. Take the time to read actual historical accounts. Learn the history and the facts.

I just saw the movie as well....Though I can't testify to the historical accuracy of the mentioned abandonment at sea....I can see how it was not possible to rescue the man. You can't stop a ship, you can't stop an "armada" like that to rescue one man. However, I can say that nowadays those things are less likely to happen with the number of rescue helicopters. Even now, people can be lost overboard and not be found, but the helicopter has made that less likely.

A PS-- I took my time seeing the movie as I had read the book a few years ago. It was a great read, read it in just a few days I believe. Funny, was trying to remember how long ago it was I read that book. I remember it was definitely before Sept 11, 2001. Never thought my generation would have a reference like this
(my grandfather always said, "it was before Pearl Harbor...", my father-in-law always referenced JFK's assassination, my father referenced the moon landing...).

Even today, sailors and Marines go overboard and some drown or are eaten by sharks. On my six month cruise, two sailors were washed overboard by a big wave. (When sailors go overboard the ship does a "racetrack" to circle around to where the person(s) went overboard.) In the case of the two sailors on my cruise, one, a father of four I believe, was almost immediately eaten by sharks. (Sharks follow the ships because the ships drop their trash in the ocean). The other sailor was rescued, but he had shark bites on his legs.

quote:

Originally posted by TOW Gunner:
Even today, sailors and Marines go overboard and some drown or are eaten by sharks. On my six month cruise, two sailors were washed overboard by a big wave. (When sailors go overboard the ship does a "racetrack" to circle around to where the person(s) went overboard.) In the case of the two sailors on my cruise, one, a father of four I believe, was almost immediately eaten by sharks. (Sharks follow the ships because the ships drop their trash in the ocean). The other sailor was rescued, but he had shark bites on his legs.

Jeez! Better to fall overboard in the Atlantic I guess.
Very tragic and I'm certainly not making light of it
--but I thought sharks wouldn't eat a Marine. Spit em out. Too tough.

Ever hear of Sherman tanks fitted with outriggers and snorkles?

I recently watched a documentary that showed the seabed off Omaha Beach littered with tanks as far as you could see. Below is an extrract of that event.

At Omaha Beach almost all of the tanks launched offshore were lost, contributing to the high casualty rate and slow progress at that beach.

There were 112 tanks assigned to the first wave at Omaha Beach, with 56 tanks in each of the 741st and 743rd Tank Battalions. Each of these battalions had 32 DD Shermans and 24 other Shermans (including many Sherman bulldozers for clearing obstacles). The 741st Tank Battalion put 29 DD Shermans into the sea, but 27 of these sank and only two made the long swim to the beach. The remaining tanks of the 741st Tank Battalion and all tanks of the 743rd Tank Battalion (except for 4 tanks aboard one LCT that was hit by artillery fire just off the beach) were landed directly on the beach, starting at about 0640. It may have been the rough seas that sank most of the DD tanks that were actually put into the water. The DD Tanks were designed to withstand waves up to 1 foot (0.3 m) high; however, on that day the waves were up to 6 feet (2 m) high. These were much worse conditions than the tanks had been tested in and thus they were swamped with water. Also, the tanks were released into the sea too far out,[3] about 3 miles (5 km) offshore. Considering the inherent difficulty in steering a 35 ton modified tank, it is a tribute to the crews that they got as far as they did. Many of the crews of these tanks drowned at sea [4]. Although they were equipped with emergency breathing apparatuses capable of lasting 5 minutes, this was simply not enough in the turbulent sea. However, some did manage to radio back and warn following units not to launch as far out.

Until very recently it was believed that most the DD Shermans that were launched offshore of Omaha beach (from 741st Tank Battalion) were sunk immediately, swamped by the seas that were much higher than the operators had practiced with. It was also suggested that they were launched too far from shore. However, tanks at the other four beaches suffered no such problems. New research suggests that the Omaha tanks were aiming for a church steeple on the visible horizon behind the cliffs. In order to maintain their line of sight it is believed that the tanks had to turn progressively away from the shore to combat the wavefronts pushing them down the beach, putting their sides virtually parallel with the waves/beach. This meant that the protective canvas flotation devices were easily swamped by the waves. If they had kept going directly forward with the front of the tank headed straight for the beach, they may have reached it.

Others believe that the error was on the part of the commanders aboard the ships from which the tanks were launched. They simply gave the order to launch too early, possibly to avoid getting too close to the battle themselves.

Geez the things our fathers and grandfathers did back then! Mech, as a treadhead....would you try to drive a Sherman ashore from 3 miles out?

This message has been edited. Last edited by: thegunny,

http://www.history.navy.mil/index.html
Gunny I have this link you might want to read on page# 14 of the photos of D-Day invasion it shows pictures of LCI's and other beachcraft burned out Sherman Tank with floatation devices the whole link is one good read.One thing I did notice that was not mentioned in the Dockmentary was all the underwater beach protection if you look at the list of lost craft you will find a excessive amount of Mine Sweepers so that would mean they expected heavy mine fields .Gunny I am old Sweep salior and that is where the moto came from Where the Fleet is We have Been.By the way to find the page use the dropdown sources oline it will show Navy Art Gallery it will show photos of Omaha Beach.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SULLY1,

Thanks for that link Sully, got lost in it for a while....

My Gr-Uncle, one of ten brothers and bil servin died there. Seems a near blast dislodged him from a cargo net he was usin to get down on a boat.

Many never made shore...but they did know the risks...