I love every branch of the military be it the boots on the ground, or the ones making sure the boots on the ground are getting the right amount of pay, or a plane ride to see their friends, or family. I understand fully that every person serving our country has some form of purpose.

With that said I do know that nothing is ever going to be perfect. I would like to open a thread up to those who have their own ideas as to what they think would make the military work better.

To start with I must say that if it was my military I would say that I might let child molesters, and violent criminals have a job in the military, BUT they would get to be the ones that peel the potatoes (violent criminals) and the child molester (any sex offender really) would get a toothbrush to clean the toilets first then be target practice for training our troops.

quote:

BUT they would get to be the ones that peel the potatoes (violent criminals) and the child molester (any sex offender really) would get a toothbrush to clean the toilets

Sounds like the average trainee...
(I mean the potatoes and toothbrush thing is on my résumé) the violent criminals and sex offenders should be in the brigs and stockades.
IMOHO

I used to sit on a bucket with 6 other guys peeling spuds all damn day, and that was at a restauraunt years ago. If anything it was fun telling jokes and what not. The day a loser felon stands shoulder to shoulder with Americas finest is the day I leave this country. It's also the day when true soldiers leave too. Elizabeth, the fellas here are real warriors. A two-bit felon doesn't even deserve to line up with theses guys.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: TYPHOON44,

I shall say more later when I get home from work, but I will say that criminals who serve in the military wouldn't get the perks of being a real troop. No guns, no b.d.u's/dress uniform, and no chance to ever recieve a medal. I do think criminals owe a debt to society, too. I shall add more details to my thoughts later... Happy red Friday to all!

Lizzy there is NO place in my country's military for those kind of people and I use that word loosely .

Alrighty, guys. Here is my more clear outline as to what I think criminals should be doing for the society that they owe a debt to. I also want to make this clear that this is after they have done their jail time and a part of their parole:

Firstly they would not be allowed to say they served in the military. They would not be allowed to go into places where weapons are stored, nor wear the uniforms the real heroes get to wear. They would be allowed to have the title something along the lines of “government janitor” or something. I have not put thought into what exactly they could call themselves, but it would not be “service member”, “troop”, “warrior”, or “soldier”. They would not get ranks either such as “sergeant” or the alike. They would as I have said clean the barracks, and groom the instillation. They would be forced to wear some form of device that would shock them and alert security if they go near any place they are un-authorized to go. No glory would ever be given to them, and they certainly would not get the honor of being buried in any national cemetery, and their pay grade would be half of an E-1.

Secondly is a more clear reason as to why I think this would benefit the military, and America is general. In listening to many vets, and former service members I have heard many tell stories of spending a lot of time cleaning their quarters, and such. I think that if we make those who have done a dis-service to America actually do something for America then why not have them relieve our troops of having to clean toilets, and such? I think if they did the things that troops have to do such as clean it would free up time for our troops to either hone in their crafts (go to the range, or study), or give them more family time. I also think that it would be a better thing for them to have as an option as many criminals end up back in jail because they either can’t find work, or have nothing better to do.

I do think that their crime should have something to do with what they end up doing for the military. Such as; a rapist does not need to be cleaning the women’s bathroom. Drug dealers shouldn’t be allowed near the installations pharmacy, and the child molesters should not be allowed near the instillations school yards. You get the idea. They would be under strict surveillance by the instillations security guards. I also think that they should have to wear a uniform that reflects their crime.

This is just one of my thoughts. To me I think it is a good idea.

Meh. Read the labels/tags on any government facility closely. You'll see that the bathroom stalls (assembled with special non-removable screws), wall lockers, and other furniture in your average barracks is built by prison labor. Prisoners already do their part, and stay incarcerated where they belong. I say expand these type of programs instead.

There's a lot to be said about chain 'gangs'.

quote:

What we have here...is a failure to communicate...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnO9Jyz82Ps

Lizzie:

what would the incentive be for any ' prisoner' to ' volunteer' for military service if you deny them the opportunity to advance/better themselves? anyone who breaks the law is supposed to be rehabilitated by the system and can return to society as a functioning member after their term of incarceration is up.. they've 'done their time' etc.etc.. don't laugh.. that's what it says in the brochure.

reality is that, if you've been in jail, you drag that 'legacy' with you for the rest of your life.. there is a stigma and and cloud over you forever...

That being said.. there was a time in British history when the military did ' recruit' from the prisons..hence the nickname 'scum of the earth' for the redcoats at one time..thinking being that they already had the skills for killing and looting you just had to point them in the right direction and, of course, if they got killed it was no great loss anyway as it saved ' the crown ' money in not having to feed, cloth and house them..
downside to using convicts is, naturally, that they are generally anti-social types so discipline and following orders is low on their scale of skills and the worry of desertion or them fragging the officers is high... the idea of having cons as cannon-fodder to throw at an enemy is counter productive from a tactical/strategic point of view as well..

bottom line is that the military doesn't need the hassle of looking after/keeping an eye on crooks in service..and the penal system already is a croc in the USA with such a high number of citizens behind bars, disproportionally from minority and low income segments of society..US has more folks in jail than any other democratic regime and executes more than any other country with the exception of repressive regimes like China and the Middle East..

if prison reform isn't high on your list, just shoot everyone who has a sentence of 25 to life and reduce the deficit incurred in having to feed, cloth and house convicts and the cost of the legal support system...

so, long story short.. no convicts in the military.. bad idea.. and don't think it wasn't thought of before...

Elizabeth;
As 1 civilian to another,your idea is fatally flawed.
You want to put prisoners ...after they have done their time?? in uniform.
You want to make new jobs for the honest military by classifying,watching,building new housing areas,feeding ex-cons.The military is hard pressed to keep up with its current requirements.

As Patoloco said,many prisoners are doing govt. contract work now,in prison.
How can you make cons who served their time go into the military.
This isnt the "DIRTY DOZEN"
these men that have posted are current/former military.Not a one thinks it a good idea.
I give you a % point for trying to be positive.

If a felon does their time and gets out, why would they have to sign up for the military? The idea that the military is " REALLY " gonna fix them leaves one to think that life is even tougher or worse than a prison. Not right, not true and not wanted. Tanks would have to be re-named " Shanks " and MIA would have a whole new meaning.

Tis simply an idea. Would you guys have any to put in the pot?

Regarding military: most western democracies have scrapped compulsory military service [usually for economic reasons ] and have an all-volunteer force. This guarantees them 'employees' who are motivated and have the appropriate mindset for service.. they want to serve/be there,etc..true you get a smaller force, but a far more efficient and effective one...and, statistically, a more intelligent force, as well...[ even those from so called deprived levels of society who join for mainly economic reasons or to take advantage of various incentives.. are seen to be more intuitively intelligent than the 'norm '...]

prisons are antiquated and non-effective institutions on the other hand..places for merely holding 'outcasts' away from the 'good folk' and have little or no value in rehabilitation.. In many cases small time crooks/anti-social types learn 'new' skills in prison and come out worse off.. Too often those in jail are there because of a biased legal system/socio-economic issues or other stuff [ I don't need to elaborate..its been discussed and 'studied' to death ]..The costs to society in general are high in many ways.

A far better way would be to have the prisoners 'work off their debt ', but, of course to the left-leaning that smacks of 'forced labour' and 'taking away' jobs from honest citizens by employing criminals [at low/no pay of course ],,

My best option would be to drop all 'career criminals ' on an uninhabited island/isolated land to fend for themselves.. they'll either kill each other or rediscover the societal links necessary for mutual survival...no amount of jail time or 'hospital sessions' are going to correct deep rooted problems most of the 'offenders' have suffered because of growing up in dysfunctional/abusive relationships..etc.. we're talking years of, often suspect, psychobabble efforts and there is always a certain percentage of recidivism no matter what one does..

the only alternative is to have a supremely harsh culling system in place.. typical of any right-thinking repressive regime.. Be a good citizen, pay your taxes, help old folk across streets, say please and thank you and take what life gives you, work to improve yourself or face elimination/removal from the gene pool/death if you break the law...

Kill all Jaywalkers! Death to those who park in handicapped spots without stickers! Eliminate the fat bastards who won't diet when they know being obese strains the health system! Show no mercy to anyone who butts into line when I've been waiting two hours for my E-ticket ride at Disneyworld! And the next person who uses the last sheet of bumwad and doesn't replace the roll will face the full wrath of the state - call out the firing squad!! [or, as we've seen in our friends 'eastern societies' - wear unrevealing clothing, don't sing, dance or otherwise enjoy yourselves, don't question authority or the validity/alleged stupidity of the laws, etc....no need to go on,, you all get it ]

simple really...

quote:

My best option would be to drop all 'career criminals ' on an uninhabited island/isolated land to fend for themselves.. they'll either kill each other or rediscover the societal links necessary for mutual survival

Rocketeer -

Didn't Australia start off that way?

The Military Needs to be on it's own..Why in the hell do the Generals...Admirals...and others need to explain their need for proper armament...or proper attire ie. flack jackets or body armor...all that does is cause Congress to have a "good laugh" behind the backs of our military leaders...
Why doesn't Congress nulify R.O.E. we're the only country it applies to..I guarantee you take out RULES OF ENGAGEMENT and we'd been done with Afganistan...Iraq...and the others a long time ago.
On the downside there's the VA our VETS and those that are currently either deployed or have been injured IN THE LINE OF DUTY have a nightmare of BS to go through before they can get any help ...WHY is that
I know I'll hear well they have to go through the proper channels..or as we all know HURRY UP AND WAIT...but there are people who put their lives on the line and some are gonna lose everythin because of some D H that runs VA who probably got his "WAR DECREE" from watchin War Movies...probably never even saw a uniform..
OK off the soap box...gonna go out for a smoke cool off