Decorated Gay Soldier Wants to Stay on Active Duty

WASHINGTON Apr 7, 2005 — An Army sergeant who was wounded in Iraq wants a chance to remain in the military as an openly gay soldier, a desire that's bringing him into conflict with the Pentagon's "don't ask, don't tell" policy.

Sgt. Robert Stout, 23, says he has not encountered trouble from fellow soldiers and would like to stay if not for the policy that permits gay men and women to serve only if they keep their sexual orientation a secret.

"I know a ton of gay men that would be more than willing to stay in the Army if they could just be open," Stout said in an interview with The Associated Press. "But if we have to stay here and hide our lives all the time, it's just not worth it."

Full story at:
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=650484

Boy, is this thread radioactive or what?

Will everyone speak their mind? Are we afraid of offending?

I do seem to recall that some sailor came bravely out of the closet in the early 90s when all of this started to come to the fore. He was beat to death that night off base.

Most guys simply won't trust gay men in the ranks with them. That's not opinion but what I observed as a Marine. Of course there were gay Marines who just played along but most were not cool with the idea at all and some wouldn't have thought twice about fraggin' the guy.

This may sound politically incorrect, but I've seen it to be true. If gay and in the military - the problem isn't necessarily that you ARE gay, but that you are gay and act it. For example, in my Marine platoon we had one guy who acted gay (feminine) but he wasn't necessarily a true homosexual. Nevertheless, the guys gave this man no mercy, and would constantly punch and harass him. But there was another guy in our platoon. He was gay and said so. But he was a "manly" man, didn't act feminine at all. In fact, for all appearances, he was one of the best Marines in the platoon. He flat out told us he wanted to f everyone of us. It was funny, and him being gay wasn't an issue. The point I'm making is that it's not necessarily the fact that you're gay in the military that is wrong (but in my opinion gays shouldn't serve for various reasons) but the fact that some guys act like girls. I don't care what kind of sensitivity training red-blooded young men get, when a guy acts gay, it's a distraction and the guys are going to pick on him regardless of regulations.

This has been debated endlessly on every military forum I've sen.. Can't seem to gt passed the hate-em/ don't care issue...Canada has gays in the military [ NO COMMENTS Airwinger! ] and Britian actively recruits from the Gay community for the Air Force [ don't ask - must be the swish uniforms ]..
Frankly I'd rather have some one who lusted after my ass guarding my six than some one who was more concerned with protecting his own..

end of discussion from this neck of the woods..

Okay.. I got to ask..what's the problem with Gays in the military?

Is is because:
a] they look better in their uniforms than you do?

b] They know all the words and insist on singing all the songs from Hello Dolly in the shower?

c] You're so insecure in your hetero-masculinity that you fear they'll turn you to the dark side?

d] you detest chinz curtains in the tent?

e] They can get to play footsie in the trenches with a ' bunk buddy' while you got to use your hand and think of the missus back home or shell out Two hundred for the over-the-hill- hooker two streets over in the next village?

I was gonna stay away from this subject, but I can't. As far as GAY's in the military goes they have the right to enlist and serve the country that same as a NON-GAY person. As long as they do the assigned task's and don't bother you then what's your problem. IMHO over the 21 years I served in the army there were bound to be GAY soldiers. They can fight and die just like everyone else. My last post on this subject

Okay, I'll take the bait.

One of the most vacuous defenses for homosexuality being accepted as normal is that the straight person questioning it must be insecure or a bigot.

The crux of the matter however is that homosexuality is not normal and that the military naturally attracts those who tend to see things more in black and white. This is why even the homosexuals who successfully serve their terms in the military are more often less worried about the issue than the pointed head types wanting to turn every government body into a grand social experiment. Of all of the homosexuals that I’ve known and actually liked, they were always of a normal, rational disposition and did not walk around with a chip on their shoulder. For them, it really was just a personal matter and they didn’t care to change the world to their personal desires.

Now, the Leftist ideology goes back way before even Marx and has always taught that human nature is, if caught at an early enough age, tabula rasa. That is, a blank slate. One of Rousseau’s main tenets to his writing in the 18th century was that of tabula rasa; he proposed that children be taken away from the parents as soon as possible and be put in government schools in order to indoctrinate them and thus rid them of ambition, avarice and violent predilections.

When I speak of Leftist here, it is not in the totally modern sense of picking a certain political party but in the broader sense of collectivism versus individualism. The collectivist, what we would recognize today as a dyed in the wool liberal, believes that human nature can be improved upon, changed that is. And thus why the Left and collectivism in general always has this pie in the sky start because it sounds so good; “We’ll get rid of poverty and sickness and everything will be fair and just!” But this runs 180 degrees contrary to human nature; something that absolutely cannot be changed. And so the various collectivist experiments always fail; from the grand ones, the USSR, to the sneaky in your backyard types, ala FDR. All of it failed and is still failing today (hello social security insurance).

I’m not trying to write a college thesis here on political or social science but I am merely stating the obvious; homosexuality is not natural and most still deem it to be, not just unnatural, but perverse. And so back to my original point that the military naturally attracts no-nonsense types of people and this is why homosexuals are resisted so strongly in the military. Or at least one of the reasons.

Now we can be insecure in our manhood, we can be bigots, we can be narrow minded religious freaks. Whatever makes the Left feel better about their argument but that will not change the most important and deciding factor here. Human nature. As long as the clock ticks, men will keep trying to change it but it will not. Period.

Great post Airwinger and it gets to the point.

Yeah, I know. But I haven't boiled my own brain down to the same sound bite mentality that has gripped our world so I like to discuss the entire matter.

A paraphrase of a favorite quote from Ayn Rand. Referring to Hank Reardon, the steel tycoon, "he had no capacity for words that weren't supposed to mean anything." Which is a fancy way of saying that he disdained small talk.

As long as they are not the "Queer Eye For the Straight Guy," image. And as long as they don't flaunt it, and act like a stereotypical gay. I think the "dont ask dont tell" is a good clause b/c it keeps that image out.

I see nothing wrong with a guy solider. I personal think it would not be a big deal.But for some stupid reason ppl. fear what they cant and or wont accept.But its 2005 lets get past this already.There was a time women werent allowed in simply because they were women. Now a man cant stay active because he's gay? That is insane.If someone wants to defend our country it shouldnt matter who they choose to be with ( man or women).

"Don't Ask, Don't Tell, Don't Accessorize"

I fully support the DON'T ASK DON'T TELL policy and I say this without any reservations they have as much right to serve and defend as anyone.

Gay or straight? Brush or floss? Hard-rock or country-western? All of the above are equally important when one considers a Soldier.

How many MOH recipients were gay? Don't know, don't care. Just keep your personal life personal and let's get on with the important stuff.

quote:

He flat out told us he wanted to f everyone of us. It was funny, and him being gay wasn't an issue.

Hahaha, I agree.