Rp -- people die in training. Maybe it was a screw up, maybe they were a screw up, and maybe it was just bad luck. But, people die driving their cars everyday -- by the way ...were you there when this recruit died - did you see neglience by the DI? Why did the DI need to loose a stripe?

Quick story -- during Vietnam my dad was a drill sgt. at Ft. Lewis -- one of the things he remembers is one of the recruits blowing themselves up with a hand grenade. He remembers it -- can still see it, but it wasn't my dads fault -- you can teach, coach and instruct all you want -- some people just will not get it - sometimes its a saveable situation sometimes its not.

rp - you are a civilian so am I. As opposed to you I think the military is a fine institution and last time I checked most countries need one --- Did you ever play sports? Probably not. You are a square peg that didn't fit in the round hole, and not a team player at all!!!

Keep trying to preach to these guys and gals - don't stop, keep bringing random sh*t - cause these guys are ripping you a new one and it's funny!!!

I think its entertaining as well, there are some on here with lagit counter points which makes it worth while to post, but others just make blanketed statements. I think I have said this before airwinger but its probably buryed in some other post. The reason I originally got on here was about direct commisions for engineers and Cavscout gave me the low down that only docs (and nurses which is BS) and lawyers get direct commissions, I also wanted to know the process for getting my general discharge since I sent in my letter for disenrolment of OCS and did not hear anything back from the guard in 2 months, but its the military so I may wait until next summer and see if anything has changed, I hate going on base becasue its like driving into a forign conutry, oh well it is what it is and its not even close to as bad if you go in with civilian clothes on, I dont have to worry about courtesys or the laundry list of BS you have to worry about when in uniform.

Anyway that was the original reason, now I am on for fun, however I still dont understand why a nurse would get a direct and not an engineer?

You are right the sports I did participate in were individual sports like tae kwon do, ninjutsu, shooting, flying and power lifting. im definatly not a team player unless I like the way the game is being played.

like the comment I made about how there are plenty of ways that they could have tested me in a flight situtation that applied to what I would be doing instead of having me run in circles and wearing my patience.

I also thought it was unethical that if you were injured or failed basic you were held over or recycled, the very concept of being recycled is unethical, if someone failed basic and dident want to be there anymore they should let them go.

*sigh*

quote:

Originally posted by rppearso:
...The reason I originally got on here was about direct commisions for engineers and Cavscout gave me the low down that only docs (and nurses which is BS) and lawyers get direct commissions... I dont have to worry about courtesys or the laundry list of BS you have to worry about when in uniform.

Anyway that was the original reason, now I am on for fun, however I still dont understand why a nurse would get a direct and not an engineer?

Why is it BS that a nurse can get a direct commission? or a lawyer? Sounds like sour grapes to me.
That laundry list of "BS" while in uniform is a slap in the face to me and my fellow Soldiers. We wear it proudly, and happily salute each other and give each other the greetings of the day, and stand at Parade Rest for our NCOs and Attention for our officers. Its called Honor and Respect. To make a comment that what we do is BS burns me to the core. I wear a uniform that greater men than me wore, and sacrificed their lives so I could have a chance to be a Soldier. And it is BS?! You must have some kind of deathwish to tell a bunch of GIs that our customs and traditions (which have been around since before this Nation has) are BS. Its the same lack of respect and reverance like that I see more and more, at ball games when people can't take their hats off for the National Anthem, or don't stand up when the Colors pass in a parade.
Its a shame that you think recycling soldiers is wrong. Its wrong for the military to try and teach someone what a commitment is? and give them ample opportunity to uphold their oath? Thats wrong? What color is the sky in your world? You should be thankful the military even gave you the slightest chance of walking in its Hallowed Halls, you are quite possibly the least qualified individual to be in the service of this Great Nation.

Lawyers and doctors are 8 to 10 years of school where a nurse is just as much school as an engineer, but in my opinion a much less rigourus program. They are both professionals, but if the military doesnt need engineers (and im talking a board certified PE not someone who went to AIT and now they call themselves an engineer) and does need nurses, thats just supply and demand, but dont expect me to tolerate treatment that a nurse does not have to tolerate.

Im sorry if it offends you that I forget to salute and or greet proporly becasue I have about a million things on my mind at any given time, and that I dont care to tolerate the melodrama that comes after me not saluting because im looking for my keys or what ever else I might be thinking about in my life at the time and someone gives me a harsh lecture that I could care less about. I dont know why it burns you to the core about the hats thing, some people just dont think about it, its not like there deliberatly out to try to be disprespectfull

rrpearso...
I've been staying out of the firing line on this for a bit since my situation isn't quite the same as yours.. Different country, different military.. However.. you comments on the ' worth ' of a Nurse vs and Engineer is ' fightin' words '.. My daughter is a nurse.. Her training, education and ' worth ' are every bit as equal to that of a doctor.. at least up here she had to do a basic degree in nursing then advanced studies [ specialist ] then complete and academic degree to put those little letters after her name and then pass a board review to qualify as a nurse and be accepted as ' Registered ' If she wants to move up the ladder she has to complete further and remedial training just the same as a doctor and for all this she ggets less pay and less respect than the joe blow MD who is a pill shill for some pharmaceutical company.
And before she could do all that she went through the same sh&t crap basic training, learning to fold sheets just right, shine boots to a mirror finish, crawl through dirt and all the rest [ including field stripping a rifle - which she'd never have to use in her life ] just to prove that she had the discipline and fortitude and mental acuity to handle her own little niche effort under stress, duress and high explosives..if and when the task arose.

You remind me of the whiners and criers my other daughter talks about and whom she has to redress, re-adjust or flush out of her training programmes [ she is a Lt/Standards Officer - teaches puffed up attitude carrying recruits how to swim in full gear, scale rock faces, jump off cliffs, and a whole whack load of other ' necessities ' - all of which she has done herself and does repeatedly - lead by example haha...] and generally scares the hell out of the pubes and twinkies who, who after seeing her do the chore as a demo wonder why they can't until they realize it takes guts, teamwork, determination and the risk of failure to learn to do it right and repeat that ' right way ' over and over until its instinct..


Seems to me that you never learned the ' basic 'first lessons'... I'm surprised you lasted as long as you did.. wouldn't have , I think, under her tutelage..

Oh and P.S.:

while I admit ignorance of US Military rules, Doctors, Lawyers and other ' non-combattants ' in my end have to go through all that basic ' crap ' to learn how to sit, stand, turn , salute, make a bed and clean a spoon.. military protocols and history and all the other stuff- even crawling through mud while being shot at.. My wife is a Military Chaplain.. she went through it all, even rifle and pistol drills [ even though under the Geneva Concention she isn't even allowed to carry a firearm ] and scored mighty high on the pistol range [ 45 out 0f 50 on the ' head shot ' targets - the reason I never disagree with her ]

You can't do the job if you don't know the parameters, and you can't relate to the ' team ' if you don't know what they can and will do when you need them to...

be thankful that all you're getting is verbal abuse from anonymous guys whacking keyboards..with an attitude like yours I'm surprised you made it out of the gate in one piece...

Damm rocket, you slice and dice with such flare.
Going throug one of my back files the other day, I came across the decal sheet we all got when the Jargon was on. Brought back some memories of absent members.

mech:
not to sideswipe thisa thread on rrpearso bashing but, yeah,, ahh those Jargon days...still have the enamel pin on my ' camp hat '...
Guess defence of the military has becopme instinct in my household.. too much khaki/camo kit in the closets...mentioned before, No. 1 son is off to the Sudan to keep score for the UN... has to go through a ' Basic Refresher ' in May before departure so that he knows how to say " I Say, Chaps.. shooting unarmed civilians is just not cricket, eh wot? " in 15 African languages..

rrpearso just reminds me of some our spirted "discussion's" and other's who used to fire misgivings and such at us in Jargon. One day his light bulb may blink on, but I really think he is clueless on the reason for us and why we defend our respective services.
So he has to play moderator for the UN, hope all goes well.

I made it out of basic in one piece because I kept my mouth shut, the drills asked me all kinds of questions on the side because I was an officer candidate and I never "steped up" to extra tasks I just got through it. And I never answered there questions, all I said was I dident know with the appropriate address "drill sergant". Just because your daughter is a nurse does not mean that comment should strike a nerve, (although in my typing I may have said somethign in an offensive manner since no one proof reads these posts), but in the US a nurse is a 4 year program and a test (the RN) plus certs for experence almost identical with an engineer 4 year program with an (EIT, engineer in training test) and 4 years experence to your PE. However with a doctor or a lawyer its like 10 years of school (then a BAR or what ever a doctor takes) so what it comes down to is supply and demand, the army needs doctors and nurses and not engineers or else engineers would get a direct. I the US chaplians doctors etc go through an abriviated basic, they still have to shoot a gun etc but dont have to put up with near as much verbal abuse as a standard recruit.

" ...don't have to put up with near as much verbal abuse as a standard recruit".. what army were you in, again?

the drill NCO's like nothing better than to run up one side and down the other of a ' direct entry ' or ' fast track ' officer/candidate, no matter what branch the're headed for..
only chance some Gunny will ever get to chastize an officer with impunity..once the pins and pips make it to sleeve and epaulette, then the NCO's reduced to making ' suggestions'

Officer: "Right, men.. we're going in full bore..on me.. !"
SGT: " If I may suggest, sir.. perhaps we could try the frontal assault from the flank and protected by that gully.."
Officer: " , um yes.. good thinking Sgt. Right, men.. Here's what I intend to do.. "

As for the Good Padre getting a slide through an abbreviated course.. didn't happen.. she was raked up one side and down the other by a 20 year vet from the VanDoos.. You ain't heard verbal abuse until it comes at you in Army French, and, believe me, you don't need a translater to know the meaning...

She's been through the FIBUA/OBUA at Fort Knox more than once and crawled through the barb wire on the live range..wasn't given an option of a pass/ go directly to lunch ticket.

as to your situation, I think you answered all our questions in your first bit about not doing anything more than the minimum required and just ' getting through it ' with no regard for the team and the ' needs of the many '..speaks volumes to me...

The humor is that he keeps making our points for us without even realizing it.

the chaplians that I talked to said that they went through chaplian basic that was about 4 weeks and much less harsh than normal basic. I dont know what you are talking about. The best bet probably would have been the air force because there you go though the BS one time then get pined you dont have this 2 and 3 times around BS, oh well you live an learn. And the scenario you described is hazing in its purest form and exactly what I have been talking about. But it is better to be a contractor because the army never gets a chance to haze you then.

Making suggestions is the NCO's job.