What do these army commercials have to do with joining a fraternity. These army commercials portray what ~ 1% (or small percentage, whatever) of soldiers jobs are (I will reiterate, flying apaches, commanding M1-A2 battle tanks and running satalites, etc). So if im stuck on stupid are you saying the advertising is not deceptive?

"Maybe you are a testament to the horrors of grade inflation" what does that mean?

I'm haveing trouble here. You are trying say some hopped up commercials in the media is your only source of military life? You have never seen a movie, TV show or even a documentry on the military? These can give even the most clueless a sample of what may happen in the life of military personnel.
You said you did college, doesn't research mean anything to you?
I don't want to start a fight here, but I've been reading your comments on a branch of service that I was a proud member of for over 4 years.
There was somethings that I wish was different,especially in the recuitiing field, but the day to day activities where what I expected. The training I received at Jackson and Polk while not the most fun in my life, gave me a source of disipline that I still use today. You make it sound like all you wanted to get into the service and you are surprised that it wasn't just a big corprate job.
You want to fly a chopper in the guard, what happens if something goes wrong? You as the pilot, are in charge of your crew. How do you take care of them. Do you have the training and disipline to take charge and get them out harms way?
I'm not even talking activation for overseas duty, I'm talking in country,in a rescue roll. What happens to your crew if your clueless on what to do?

This pearson cat has had a bad experience in the guard, and now considers it his calling in life to visit military forums so that 1) he may share with us his extensive wisdom borne of his military experience, and 2) possibly save some poor soul from the clutches of Uncle Sam’s war machine.

Every thread he’s participated in, it’s the same song.

Essentially he’s mad at the military because they failed to see how great he was. He saw Top Gun, and a few other flicks, watched some cool recruiting commercials and envisioned himself as the hero. Then he got there, and realized that there was a lot of work involved, and that his tattooed, drunk driving, spoiled little boy attitude was exactly what the military did not want. They rejected him and he’s mad.

Think about what this guy is saying (and I’m judging him here by some of his posts in other threads) the guard was too rough for him. No offense to the guard, but it’s not exactly a spit & polish organization. He couldn’t cut it in the least demanding branch of the American military and so of course, the American military is all wrong.

It has nothing to do with his own misconceptions of not only the military, but life in general. The problem is of course, a corrupt industrial military complex duping our otherwise good young men into tedious, humiliating duty in the military.

And more to the point of the thread; of course men can’t come home for the birth of a baby. Such a policy would be horribly disruptive to the unit, and of course, the overall effort at hand.

It wasn’t that long ago that junior enlisted men weren’t allowed to even marry, and having a child out of wedlock could have landed the junior troop in actual legal trouble with his command.

And if you have to ask why that was, you wouldn’t understand.

Thoes are good points mech. However I did not learn anything in basic other than I did not want to be there, basic did not teach me how to deal with an engine failure in a chopper, etc. I was the same person when I came back from basic except with a bad taste in my mouth about the army, my life did not magicaly transform and I could have passed the critical tests in less than a week (rifle quals and a PT test), I did not need to be tormented and harrassed for 2.5 months.

Now if I went to flight school and they did simulations of an engine failure and I couldent handle it so I failed flight school, I would have left the army gracefully. But I left becasue I was unwilling to tolerate abusive and unnessicary hazing. Some people probably need the disipline, but when I came to the army with high ASVAB scores an engineering degree, in great shape from being self motivated to work out, it should have been clear from my civilan life that I had what it took to fulfil my focus, and I made my focus very clear, to fly. But when it was clear that threre would be no soon end to the nonsense and BS, I was done. I never ment this to get this heated but instead of giving me a hard answer on why it was nessisary to haze I got ambiguious character trait development answers (ie, disipline, unit cohesion) and thats BS. There are no real skills learned in basic that cant be taught to a motivated individual in like a week at there home unit.

What you saw as not the most fun in your life, I saw as unnessicary hazing, if I dident have disipline I wouldent have made it through college or worked out on my own or got my pilots licence on my own. When I was told that OCS would be a second basic I would have to go through I told them to take a hike, I did there little initiation and I wasent about to do it again.

I did do alot of research before I joined, in fact I spent 6 months from the time I talked to a recruiter to when I joined and I was told OCS would be professional training, however what the military considers "professional training" and what the rest of the world considers "professional training" is very different, I figured doing some group PT, pistol quals and quite a bit of class room learning and that is what OCS is..... along with all the same basic training hazing.

quote:

There are no real skills learned in basic that cant be taught to a motivated individual in like a week at there home unit.

You’re wrong.

Basic training is like a distillation process where the selfish little boy is purged, and a more selfless, duty bound warrior (or at least warrior to be) emerges. Showing up and extolling your own virtues of how you know how to work out, and the ASVAB that apparently only you scored high on, only highlights your narrow focus of life in general.

You are absolutely incapable of understanding the first thing about esprit de corps, team work, unit pride and taking care of a brother. You are by far the most self-centered, puerile individual I have ever encountered in this forum, and I feel that I can say objectively, that the military is much better off without you.

Wow all of that becasue I refuse to be hazed. And the whole junior enlisted men not being able to marry, how messed up is that, so its ok for officers to get married and have a normal life but junior enlisted "pee ons" were denied god given rights "if you are a christian" which I am.

What you call hazing, is actually training. It really does distill the "boy" out of the man, the selfishness out of the warrior.

That you absolutely cannot see that only backs up what I've been saying.

You are simply not fit for the military, and while you are personally a very childish and self-centered man, I don't believe that a person who is unfit for military service is necessarily a bad person.

On this side of the line are warriors, on the other side of the line, everyone else. You stay home and watch the home fires, we'll go get Haji and keep you safe.

Unless someone has a medical reason they cannot serve you do think them a bad person because what other reason could there be that they could not serve other than the fact that they could not hack it. And if "training" is suppost to distill the boy out of the man, I did not experence this magical change. So I guess abuse and hazing is what it takes to become a man. Dont mistake self centeredness for focus, it would be like you going to college and someone else telling you what you are going to major in (ie a dream sheet), I told the major im going to fly or im going to leave and I had to fill it out anyways and then he got all pissy, so I guess im self centered because I dont back down, I am willing to work for what I get but that work better be in direct relationship to what I want. Like if you wanted to be a mechanic and you had to learn how to bake a cake before they would teach you how to fix a car, F that I will just go somewhere where I can just learn to fix the car

Then you have no idea what the military is, or what it is about. Besides the MOS you elect to work in, there are many other duties that the average soldier has to perfrom to maintain the teamwork evolved that makes up the military.
The hazing in the beginning that you so hated was designed to evaluate your stress level and how you funtion thereof.
And all the other little duties and you descrbed that was beneath you are just everyday chores that have to get done.

Ok Mech, that makes sense, but why have a second basic (OCS) if you have already went through the first one (BCT). Everyday chores is one thing, but having a "training" (hazing) phase that lasts 3 years is very extreme (ie enlist in december go to basic in january, get back in april and then have to wait to go to OCS until June of the next year, then have to break that into 2 phases coming back after 2 or 6 weeks and going back again June of the following year after that then waiting 6 more months to go to flight school (assuming I even got flight) and then having to sign on for another 6 years after returning from flight school, that puts me at a 12 year commitment which is beyond what I originally signed for. Tell me that isent messed up. A helicopter licence is not "all that" to be signing up for 12 years when I was originally only suppost to have to do 6.

If they wanted a 12 year commitment for a helicopter pilot they should of said something in the beginning instead of wasting everybodys time and there money.

The power of mindless rationalization is strong in this one.

So your saying everything I said is nonsense.

rppearso:
just finished reading through the five pages of point/counterpoint on your little tiff with the Nat Guard.. and as an outsider to the Guard ethos/structure and the US military itself [ except in a general way ] let me say from this distant perspective that you are what we call in the true north a ' hoser '...

Have you ever considered that the ' hazing ' and mindless boot polishing and the desire to see you clean shaven [ my gawd - personal hygiene !!] were designed to do exactly what you did. Weed you out as unfit? All those mottos " the Few and the Proud " - " An Army of One ". .etc.. have, after cutting through the hype, a meaning ..the military, in whatever form, requires a well motivated, selfless team player who sees his part in the machine as a necessary component not a mindless cog. The rewards to the individual may be small but they are significant [ a lifelong source of strength and understanding of the ' big picture of things' ] the sacrifices are greater as they are of benefit to the nation [ however defined and not ' confined ' to the present administration ].

The military wants and needs the 'best ' and has, despite a ' need' for numbers to be able to rely on those it retains.. that means cutting a lot of chaff from the wheat.. you, sir, seem to be that chaff,- as I perceive it from reading your posts.. you never got past the ' me,me,me' stage to see the worth of the 'us' part..
sorry it didn't work out for you.. you are not alone..no shame.. but don't demean the role and contribution of the military or the way it handled you; you just weren't able to remake yourself into the peg to fit the hole..not up to the military to remake the hole to fit you...

Seems to me you were better suited to the Air Farce there you could have swaned about in fancy dress, slept in, eaten off real plates and flown polished and pretty painted helos at air shows and posed for posters with the rest of them..[ by the way who do you think has to polish them after each show? - since it obviously wasn't in your contract/job description ]...