CavScout, you made alot of interesting points. So to answer the question once and for all putting personal opinion aside, is a guard member a full time civilian and part time soldier or the other way. One weekend a month sounds like part time soldier to me which is why I joined I wanted to fly helicopters on the weekend to rescue people in the state respond to disasters etc, to support the state in which I live, I could care less about the rest of the country thats why they have there own national guards. I guess in my opinion guard units should never be activated, if the regular army is short they need to draft and leave the guard to take care of things at home. Of course once I joined I was majorly educated that that was not the case and the fact that I still had to go through the traditional military hazing beyond basic (OCS) which I was told was professional training I was also wrong about that, there were so many things not adding up so it was time for me to go.

I do not have a problem quitting anything that diverges from my focus, I have a very narrow field of things that I want to do in this life and any divergence from that is a waste of time, I am not the type that does something (or doesnt do something) because someone calls me pussy etc. In fact it was when I read the little card they give you in basic I knew it was not for me after that it was the fear of being recycled that got me to pass (fear not duty or honor).

rppearso
The reason National Guard units are called up to support the nation on this war on terror, is because they were offered up by the leaders of each state. This offer was made across the nation right after 9-11, and our countries leadership would have been stupid to refuse.

Your view of what the Guard is supposed to be ie: weekend duty, helping out during disasters and only within the boundries of a state, is a myopic viewpoint. Its also one that is not shared by the nation as a whole. National Guard units have and continue to serve with distinction, mostly because they are dedicated and yes, trained. From what I can see, by your own admission, you got through basic, and decided to get out during OCS. You weren't in long enough for any meaningful training to get started for you. You bailed. Basic is like kindergarden, OCS is elementry school compartively speaking. You never got out of first grade. And this bit about walking a mile in a Marine Corps Gunnery Sergeants boots.......gimmie a break. The closest you ever came to getting shot at was at the frigging paintball range.

National Guard or Reserves, Active Duty, we all took an oath. That oath is not a part-time commitment. It should be full-time soldier, part-time civilian, in my opinion.
Also, NG OCS is not the same as RA/USAR OCS.

HarryP: I wasn't trying to knock the previous Guardsmen that served before my time. But as you said, the current National Guard is nowhere near the men of yore. Hopefully it is changing, but the Guard in its current state, is ill-equipped, poorly trained, and full to the brim with lackluster individuals that need to move out and draw fire. They want the respect and admiration the Active Duty Components get, without doing the hard work that comes with it. They want the training and equipment, but when training gets tough; "they didn't sign up for this."
As for the hazing, it happens. Very often it'll happen, especially if you are sandbagging the unit. They don't haze you individually for fun. They'll "PT" the whole unit if you can't get it right. Its about making the whole team feel the pain; and the only to blame is yourselves. YOU can't be a team player, so the TEAM will fail, and the TEAM will get smoked. In turn, they haze YOU, until you learn to be part of the TEAM. This logic has been around in the military since the 1920s. And it works.
As for fear, I always told my soldiers, fear is the best motivator on the planet. Anyone who says they faced combat and wasn't scared is a liar. But you learn to embrace that fear, and let it motivate you. Fear is not a debilitator, it'll carry you through. Not fearing anything is asinine, and thats how you wind up DRT. There is a fine line between bravery and stupidity.

CavScout: I agree and did understand what you were saying but wanted to make the point about how the guard changed.

As for equipment -- our unit carried M-14s because we either flew or pulled p-guard and did not have to hump the thing through the bush. I can also remember driving 3/4 ton trucks from Korea that were the same age as me. A true soldier is one who has it in his heart.

My second night in Vietnam I stood guard in a tower with another replacement and we had only a M-60 and we were given the thirty-second training on how to fire the beast. Talk about not being able to sleep after I found out that clowns like me were pulling guard.

Very good points CavScout, however I think these points need to be made painfully obvious when you sign up for the guard (ie your going to peel potatoes and dig fox holes until we decide you can continue on with what you signed up for). I made it very clear that I wanted to fly helicopters on the weekend and that I would be fast tracked through all of the BS (basic, OCS) and be able to go to flight school the same year on a 6 year contract. I also made it very clear I was not going to iraq afganastan etc, and if they wanted to give me some kind of discharge for it with what ever little code they use to try to screw you over I dident care. I was under the understanding that I would be set apart from the regular guard units as a pilot because of my technical proficency high test scores and ability to fly (I was a pilot before I joined) and I would only have to tolerate combat arms sergants during my fast track time (basic, OCS). My "fast track" turned out to take 3 years (of which I tolerated 1 and left) and I found out that once I finished flight school I would have to sign up for another 6 years so as you can see the whole thing was a mess from the start. I would have been better off going air guard and going straight to OCS skipping basic and reading a newspaper until a C-130 slot opened, but you live and learn, I will finish my flight ratings that I want myself (the only way to get something done right is to do it yourself).

I'm glad they out processed you. You wanted to use the military for your own gain, and offered nothing in return.

Thats the problem, I should have never had to be out processed in the first place because I should have never been in processed after making all of my intentions clear. And offering nothing could not have been farther from the truth, I would have offered nothing to the Bush war machine but been willing to bend over backwards for my state in a crisis which is why I joined to begin with. The national gaurd was originally started as a state militia and has somehow turned into a disposable arm of the regular army. Back in the day the national gaurd would fight like hell to defend there states or even neiboring states but were not subservient to the federal government to go overseas. Anyway alot has changed, and I would rather watch the change from my couch on CNN than be a pawn in Bush's war machine

Fine. But why are you in here?

Trying to find out why the military would be ok with intentions that I made clear and then renig on what they told me. I also need to know what paper work to fill out to get my defective enlistment agreement which is why I origanally posted then I started getting hate mail so I though it was entertaining how disconnected some people in the military are with the rest of the world. Everybody thinks ohhh I went through basic, AIT and what ever other training now im hot shit, and I think its funny and I just hold a piece of paper that I paid for from one of the best engineering schools in the nation and im not a professional becasue I refuse to be hazed. I also have a friend getting ready to get out of the military in a year and im trying to get him to get some real education so he can survive in the civilian world and these posts help to illistrate my point.

I think I hit the nail on the head with my post in open discussion under port security.

You can say anything you want, such as 'I stated my intentions' and so on, but anyone knows its whats written in the contract thats binding.

You are of the mindset that the governemnt owes you a quality education for the privledge of what your presence? You openly admit that serving in a combat zone is not an option for you, and that all you were willing to do is punch holes in the sky on weekends, and you wouldn't take no shit from anyone......and then you wonder why your now on the outside looking in?

Thats the problem, I got my education on my own and did not expect the government to pay it off, I would be tolerating BS (ie basic, OCS) in exchange for flight school and in my contract it stated that if they did not send me to OCS within a year of finishing basic my contract would be void also if for any reason I failed OCS my contract would be void. I dont go to guard anymore so I was just wondering what paper work I needed to do to make it an official discharge. As far as taking shit, there is no reason to take shit from anyone, especially when the guard was getting a highly qualified individual at next to no cost to them, there has to be a give and take, im not going to let the military bleed me dry and spit me out im going to make sure I get something out of the deal and I wasent. Willingly taking shit is a diliberate degredation of your quality of life. There is plenty of paper work to file if someone has legitimatly f***ed up, but if they just pissed you off because there an E-4 and your a sergant and they dident address you right your going to fly off the handle like a crazy ass hole because you have little to no legitimate recourse becasue they really havent done anything other than piss you off (they need to tell them to shut there f***ing mouth and write up an article 15 already, then they can discharge everyone out of the military) and for some reason its accepted, if anyone else operated in that manner (ie company, individual, etc) you would think thats BS. And I guess you amount staying currant in flight hours to punching holes in the sky thats pretty sad, the state has issues that the guard attends to and has plenty to do with out being bleed by the federal government. In fact there is no reason for "combat arms sergants" to be hazing anyone. Jobs in the military arnt really that bad (even cooks or infantry) its the people and how they act that makes it suck and the misguided focus. But that is my opinion and that is why complex work is done by contractors.

I think it is funny how some people in the military try to justify insane behavior instead of seeing it for what it is and trying to improve it.

The National Guard did not renig on any obligation! You have had to read your contract and then sign it for the last 28 years. By your own admission you quit. So when YOU breach your own contract by not finishing the program YOU signed up, the National Guard owed you nothing, but a Re-Entry code of 3+, and a general discharge. If you didn't read the black and white print, thats your fault.
Then again, you seem to think the U.S. Military is some extension of Bush's Agenda. Heaven forbid countless advisors, Joint Chiefs of Staff, tell the President what decisions to make. Its almost like the Nation has run amok thinking the President is running around doing whatever the hell he pleases. 'Cause the last time I checked, the past 26 years of Presidents have done a fine job being mouthpieces for the Party they represent, and the Special Interest Groups making campaign contributions.
Which brings me to the finer points of your higher education leading to political idiocy. What in sound reasoning would make you think this is Bush's War? You probably think the 403-3 vote to continue the conflict by Congress is some made-up number pulled from George W. Bush's hind end then. That the proceedings for said vote were co-authored by the Joint Chiefs and Defense Sub-Committee, would make one think that there were more minds involved than one Texan President's.
As for education in the military, and training being substandard, you must be insane! If it wasn't for the military, you wouldn't have 90% of the technology you own or plan to work on.
Spread spectrum communication, microwaves, nuclear power, stronger car frames out of lighter material, Spectra (in Spiderwire),128-bit SSL encryption, run-flat tires, were all invented by military research labs. We see it, use it, declassify it, civvies get it.
And in the grand scheme of things, I am "hot shit," because I have a degree, and six years experience in a highly specialized career field, carry a security clearance, and have led and managed people in the toughest of situations. So, I'm sure if I can survive in the military, there is very little the weak-willed, soft-cored civilian world is going to throw at me that I can't handle. Don't confuse my pride for arrogance, and my jocularity for weakness, and my views tunneled, my education militarily substandard; you'll find this lion has claws and teeth.

I agree its not just bushes war, but none the less its not a war im going to. All of this technology you speak of is done by civilians working under government contracts (ie scientists and engineers) and that money comes from the people of the united states. They might have some kinda military supervision but I can guarentee that they are not being yelled at by some sergant like an 18 yr old kid. I stated earlier that the reason you will be ok in the civilian world is not becasue of you military training but because of your degree and specialized training, if you were fortunate enough to get it in the military thats good becasue most do not