I see it from a wholly different perspective, as I have been a single soldier my entire career thus far. I think, in the combat zone, your presence should be based on neccessity. If you can go home for a child birth, etc. and it would not impact the mission, anymore than cost, it should be allowable. I'll stay in country, and not take R&R or Environmental Leave, if a married guy can go home. Thats my personal feeling.

As for not getting back on the plane, rppearso, thats called cowardice. The thought is despicable. As for the military caring less about families, I give less than a crap about someone's personal issues, until it impacts the mission. If they don't have their head in the game, the mission suffers. I know what it is like on the receiving end, whilst my Dad served the Air Force proudly, missing countless birthdays, anniversaries, etc. Whether he wasn't physically there, I knew the sacrifices he made, and he was always there when he could be, and he always cared for his boys. Now that both his sons are servicemen, its tough to not be able to come home for Thanksgiving or Christmas; but he understands. When you choose to serve your country, you voluntarily put all that above family. No one forced you, but thats the role. Like it or not, we have to deal with it. The military is not some socially liberal democratic entity. It always has been a autocratic system. "To ensure the rights of many, the few will sacrifice those rights, in service of a cause greater than themselves and in the interest of the common good; albeit a neccessary evil." --Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica II, Definitive Remarks re: A Justifiable War.

I once again agree with you, thats why I said if he wants to stay in he is just going to have to deal with it. As for me I could not tolerate the military way of life so I got out. The whole cowardice thing is a matter of opinion, it depends on why he is not getting on the plane, if its because he might get hurt sure I will give you that one. If it is becasue his family needs him that is by no means cowardice, just because the military says it has to be an extream case raised to the nth degree does not mean that the service member feels the same way. The reason for myself leaving the military was the militarys redefining of hazing to conviently fit there needs. If he does not want to be around for his kid then he should stay in, if he wants to have a family he needs to get out. There is no excuse to have deployments that last until the end of time, if the military is so strapped they need to start a draft.

Oh yeah, lets only have regularly scheduled troop deployments and see if we can win the war that way. geez, you really need to listen to yourself speak sometimes.

???, I am just saying that if our troops need relief we need to start a draft in order to shrink the length of the deployments.

We have had a draft in almost every other major conflict, why not have one now?

Hmmm body count not high enough already for you?

Hmm, I figured you would support a draft. Everyone seems to be hardcore military (you signed on the dotted line and the like). Everyone was all pissy when I left the garud but no one wants to start a draft to get the numbers that they need. I guess im just confussed.

How does being hardcore military equate to supporting a draft?!? Draftees in no way, shape, or form; were a permanent cure to the military manning issue.

And let's not get crazy. The National Guard is NOT the military. The Army and Army Reserves are Federal Enitities that report to DoD. The Guard report to the State OTAG (Office of the Adjutant General) and the Governor.

If the guard unit is activated it becomes federal as alot of guard units have been. The mentality I got at gaurd before I left was this shirt says army not army guard we fight where the army fights blah blah. It is active duty military that they dont have to pay until you are in the arm pit of the world. Im sorry but if im going to iraq im going to need at least 1/4 of a mill a year

Therein lies the problem. This confusion that says the Guard is the Army, and we need to fight for quarter of a million dollars. Thats just greed. When federalized, the Guard still operates with antiquated equipment, and are behind the power curve in tactics and technique. (Thank the Governor for spending your monies elsewhere.) They are also the most vocal griping about mail not coming regularly, and that a year deployment isn't what they signed up for. Sure it says Army on the uniform, but that doesn't mean you are a Soldier. Countless individuals wear the uniform, but that never made them a Soldier. Things like the Warrior Ethos are lost on many Guardsmen and Reservists; even Active Duty. Thats not to say there isn't exceptions to the rule. But you polarize it, thinking some civilian job is more respectable, and that a 1/4 Mil is worth fighting for your country. Not Honor, Integrity, or Duty.
I will always place the mission first.
I will never accept defeat.
I will never quit.
I will never leave a fallen comrade.
Thats the Warrior Ethos, and thats what you fail to grasp. At no point does it talk about money, or family. But then again, thats selfless service; that which you openly admit, you avoided, and got out as an entry level separation. In my book, and purely my opinion, thats quitting. Plain and simple.
The military has always had quitters. So, what logic would allow us to view quitters and all non-hackers as acceptable in any light?
Our education system even reinforces this. Schools have foregone teaching right and wrong/good and evil, for tolerance and sensitivity. All you end up with, is tolerance of wrong and evil.
It is never okay to quit, or back out, or break your word. It is unacceptable, period. Moreso in the military. I should know, that when you say, "Don't worry battle buddy, I have this guard post. Sleep easy, bro," you aren't going to quit when it gets a little difficult, and I won't get ghosted in the night.
And to counterpoint, the Guard will never be the Active Duty Army, even when deployed to the "arm pit of the world." For the simple fact, we had the dedication to do it all day, everyday; not once a month, two weeks a year.
Somewhere along the line it got confused with part-time civilian, full-time Soldier; to part-time Soldier, full-time civilian.
Merely, my opinion. But I'm pretty sure its founded and based.

Do the soldiers presently serving in Afghanistan get the same 2 weeks R&R that the Irag troops are getting?
If so, then he needs to see if he can schedule his leave in the approx time the baby will be born. If it works out..it works out. If not, he won't be the first to miss a birth. I can't tell you how many soldiers I know who have more than one child and have never witnessed thier births.

C-Mom

My son in law for one.

Mech,
My uncle was a 20 year Navy man with 5 kids. He was never home to see one born. He came home, got my aunt preggo and then was off for another tour!..lol

Must have been a hell of a shore leave.

CavScout: My Great Grandfather was in the National Guard, 126th Infantry which was assigned to the 32nd Division. He was wounded in World War I. Additionally, my niece served in Iraq with a Guard unit but admits that the regular establishment looked down on them and she could see why. She is a recruiter now and refuses to lie to get people to enlist. Not all Guard is bad but I do get your point. When I took basic on Knox – we looked down on the guard and reserve people because we thought they were avoiding true service.

I have to say that today's Guard is not the same as it would be if we properly activated entire brigades or regiments and trained them as we did during our major wars. Our current methods are not adequate. The day I was transferred as a replacement to my unit in Vietnam, I arrived with a Mr. Cloud who was an activated National Guard CWO. He did a good job but he was assigned to a regular unit and that helped him because the unit was Regular Army – trained and organized to fulfill their mission.

Also, I served with many people who were drafted and have to say that many of them were great soldiers but none of them wanted to be where they were regardless of how many of them reenlisted (most did not). The draft simply would not work today.