You think that every school you go to makes it another 6 year commitment!? Damn, I still have another 100 years to do!

No only flight school does that as far as I know, but flight was my only interest so if not flight then not military. Flight is the only one you can bring a spouse to as well. Since I would only have had 1-2 years left after OCS I just would have drug my feet going to some other OBC until my contract expired.

AH! See, there's your problem. You join to be a Soldier/Sailor/Airman/Marine/Coastie. You join to serve. You don't join for a specific job.

And you're saying it's a 12 year commitment to be a Guard pilot? Is that what you're trying to say?
Cause it ain't coming through. You keep claiming your arguments and posts are making more sense....not.

wow rppearso u turn all my questions into agruements lol

That is correct I joined to be a pilot not a soldier. That was also something else that I made clear with my recruiter, the military has nothing to offer me other than flight training in advanced air craft, everything else I can do as a civilian that im interested in. I put myself where I am today not the military so I dont owe anything, entitlement goes both ways, you cant get pissy because I say im entitled and then when the military says it its ok, thats hypocracy. They pray on people that dont know any better, I dident know any better I assumed they would keep there word and be honorable but I was mistaken, I guess if it is not in the canned contract they can lie about it and its ok thats not dishonorable thats just a recruiter trying to do a hard job, thats BS. The more and more this is justified the more respect I loose for the military and im definatly not alone. So dont get all pissed off when someone would rather live at home and work at mcdonalds than join the military because there is no trust in there word and they wont write you a special contract because they know they are going to break there word otherwise they would write the special contract. I offered my education and qualifications in exchange for flight training and to help out my state, they had a severe shortage of officers and even fewer flight qualified, but they never wanted to end the hazing so they couldent have needed them that bad. There has to be an exchange or other wise its not a good deal and the contract is off.

As soon as I finished basic there were all kinds of problems poping up, the first red flag was the "dream sheet" I told the major I signed up for flight not anything else, and he said you can do that blah blah blah, and then it was red flag after red flag, the extra 6 year commitment if I got "selected" for flight which boils down to me resigning my commission if I dident get flight and since I had no intention of signing on for an extra 6 years I would not have went that would give the guard a very long time to make use of me in iraq, no thank you. So there really is no point in going through the BS hazing of OCS if I turn around and resign it, at least I might get some VA benifits for my injury in basic, so I might get some compensation for my harrasment.

http://www.rotc.monroe.army.mil/helpdesk/accessions-1/m...ight%20trng%20bd.htm

Here is the link for the extra 6 years

Some of you I think just choose not to look at reality, you justify shitty treatment as training, its fine if you dont mind being treated like shit but dont try to call the shit flowers or call someone dishonorable because they refuse to tolerate being hazed.

Here is what it means to be a soldier to me:

Meet the needs of the army at the armys convience not yours, tolerate abusive treatment, belittlement, and hazing. The military does not care what you signed up for because your a soldier first which means you just put up with what ever shit job you dident sign up for (which brings up the question: why even have an MOS?) (ie the marine corp is putting legal admins in front line postions, hell why not put the doctors out there to so they can "earn" there deployment ribbon or whatever. You sign up for a job for a reason, because thats what you want to do, you dont enroll in college and tell the school I think I will let you pick my major for me, how much f***ing sense does that make.

And then when you try to better yourself (ie education, training etc, the army is not so quick to act)

That 6 years is on top of the 6 years you have to sign as an 09S which is just OCS, hazing part 2, so once you finish basic, go to OCS the next year and the year after in 2 phases you are up to 3 years then wait to go to flight school and flight school itself another 1-2 years you are at 5 years of your 6 year contract, then you have to sign on for another 6 making it anywhere from 10-12 years.

And thats half a carrer

So...rppearso...maybe I'm being a tad too critical, but from the tone of your posts, here and elsewhere, it sounds as if you were looking to gain the most for little to no cost to yourself. By YOUR own ommission YOU chose to join the army to become a pilot ONLY. AND...YOU"RE mad that THEY didn't keep THEIR word?? What about yours?

Oh...nevermind I know the anwser to that one. You didn't give it right? Or..if you did you had your fingers crossed. Or..it was THEIR fault because, after all, YOU were the victim.

Did you really expect that they were just going to provide you with all your flight training, and type ratings and not expect you to do something for all that?

Oh nevermind....I know the anwser to that also.

Having a son in the sandbox for the 4th time, I can say with some authority that it takes a certain type of person to be in our military, one with intergity, strong ethics, a profound sense of duty to their team and a williness to do and go where other's will not. I can also tell you that without these same traits, as a pilot you will never gain the "left seat".

LOL, SERE school is nothing like boot camp. I went to SERE school at Warner Springs. 1 week in the classroom. 1 week in the field. 24 hours in the camp as a "war criminal".

And LOL at you joining to be a pilot and not a soldier. Hate to break it to you, but in the Army, you're a soldier first, then whatever it is after. Just like in the USMC, you're a grunt first, a whatever second. In the Navy you're a sailor first, and whatever second. The Air Force, I have no idea.

Pagancyn explained it pretty completely, you just expected everything to be handed to you on a silver platter, and when it didn't happen fast enough for you, you threw a tantrum and took your ball and went home. I know your type, mom and dad paid for everything, your first car, college. So when things don't go exactly like you want, you throw a tantrum expecting everyone to react like your parents. Sorry, but in the civilian world as in the military world, it just doesn't workout that way.

quote:

Originally posted by tgust:
wow rppearso u turn all my questions into agruements lol

yep, he's a troll that changes every thread into his whining abot how bad he was treated....

I answered the question to the original thread and I think a few of you others have as well in responding to me.

If you want to go to school and learn a skill etc etc, your a soldier first (ie grunt, that gets hit by the shit full on) so dont count on any profound amount of schooling, training etc.

So unless someone says I want to be a peeon and get shat on, im going to tell them the military is the wrong answer if you are trying to use it as a medium to get ahead.

BTW-nothing was handed to me growing up, but when I put in hard work I expect results not shit so where there is nothing but shit in sight and im more qualified than the major on the other side of the desk (education, flying experence and intelegence) I wont tolerate it, I will go somewhere where my hard work produces results not more BS.

I was a victim of omission of truth during sign up.

I agreed to go through there little hazing (basic) in exchange for flight school. Not enless hazing and maybe flight school if im a good boy, thats nonsense. I will work hard else where that produces results (ie PE licence, flight ratings, etc, etc).

Duty? The military never paid my way through anything, so what duty do I owe to them, and what will your son get in exchange, some jacked up knees and maybe a phycological disorder, all courtesy of the US military.

I already fly left seat civilian, im in the process of getting my private licence and in a few years have my own stunt plane (so that would be more of a center seat).

The military wanted to mess around, so I did it myself, the civilian world was much faster and much more efficient.

So in response to the original tread: If you think you are going to get education, etc, etc, all I have to say is good luck make sure its in your contract before you join and make sure you have an exit clause in your contract as well in case they decide your going to dig ditches instead of program computers (or whatever you signed up for). If you want to be a grunt peeon then go for it and hope that you are lucky enough to get "selected" for some kind of special training. Because it is luck otherwise I would have had a direct commission as an engineer and then switched to aviation after I had my commission but they wouldent have that so I will do it my self.

HAHAHAHAHA! Oh my sweet Jesus! You honestly think you are more qualified than a Major?!?

You honestly believe the military didn't pay for you in any way?!?

You'd get a commission and switch CMFs on your own accord?!?

What world do you live in?!?
Thats okay though. You just let us know when the shuttle lands, buddy.

I saw maple leaves with infantry cross rifles. No pilot wings or top notch engineering qualifications. He may have been qualified for what he did but I should have never put in a position to have to deal with him or the lt col for that matter.

I dident get my commission, the only thing the military paid for was basic for me to get hazed so they can eat that expense as far as im concerned.

Rppearson (now forever known to me as Kiddo) Your last post just nearly broke my heart. Where were your parents? Who stood by you when you made your decission to go into the army? Did you not talk this over with anyone.. or did you just ignore other's advice? You're making good use of the internet to spread your angst...but did you not use it to research before signing? Either way you're a sad case. BUT it does not excuse this....

quote:

Duty? The military never paid my way through anything, so what duty do I owe to them, and what will your son get in exchange, some jacked up knees and maybe a phycological disorder, all courtesy of the US military.

YOU ARE DEAD ASS WRONG Kiddo...the military that you've spent so much time and effort putting down is why you are able to make into reality your dream of riding a stick in a stunt plane (a topic I'll touch on later). What will my son get? Well..He'll get nightmares and daymares, he'll get grief and disrespect from those like you. He has and will be wounded in ways you will can NEVER imagine. He has saved lives and learned to live with the lose of those he couldn't save...and he has/will take lives. He has also gained insight, tolerance, and leadership skills and he has experienced brotherhood. He had the choice not to go this last tour, but he went, leaving behind a new wife and the chance to medical school. But you know what? It will still be here when he gets back. Enough said.

Question: If you think the civilian way is the way to go for flight training, why didn't you go that route to start with?

Now...the stunt plane dream. Kiddo...If you think you're flying that stick alone....think again.. Your responsiblilties include the safety of your crowd and other performers. No matter how good you are, if you can't play nice....you don't get invited.

Patoloco...I appologize for ranting at Kiddo on your tread and offer this advise; what ever you decide to do, you will only get out of it what you are willing to put into it. That's just a fact of life. Good luck.

Not my thread, I was also kinda apologizing to Tgust who started this and ended up with all the whining. My name for rppearso is HiJack.

Oh I get it now, the Hi Jack thing, I cant believe it took me that long to catch on.

The most disrespect I got when I was in was from others in the military with me. I got more disrespect from other military members than from civilians. Thats the problem I had, I dident experence brotherhood, tolerance or insight. Maybe I was at a bad base, maybe your son got lucky being able to have brotherhood, all I got was grief and a bunch of BS.

I thought when I joined there would be some level of integrity among other members but I was wrong.

I understand all that goes into flying, I would be happy just getting aerobaticly rated even if I never actually performed in a show.

Regardless if you think this is a hijack it is very profound information and insight into the reality of the military, looking past the smoke screen of college money and AIT training for someone who is 17 and wants to join the marines. There are posts that you post against me that show the true side of the military not just lets sit on the couch and take an ASVAB, look at me im the nice guy recruiter, and when you are sitting in reception you will be flashing back to all of this and realize im not full of shit.

It makes it even worse when you are more qualified than the drill sgt and the basic doctors ask you why the hell dident you get a direct commission as an engineer.

quote:

Originally posted by rppearso:
The most disrespect I got when I was in was from others in the military with me. I got more disrespect from other military members than from civilians. Thats the problem I had, I dident experence brotherhood, tolerance or insight. Maybe I was at a bad base, maybe your son got lucky being able to have brotherhood, all I got was grief and a bunch of BS.

I thought when I joined there would be some level of integrity among other members but I was wrong.

I understand all that goes into flying, I would be happy just getting aerobaticly rated even if I never actually performed in a show.

Regardless if you think this is a hijack it is very profound information and insight into the reality of the military, looking past the smoke screen of college money and AIT training for someone who is 17 and wants to join the marines. There are posts that you post against me that show the true side of the military not just lets sit on the couch and take an ASVAB, look at me im the nice guy recruiter, and when you are sitting in reception you will be flashing back to all of this and realize im not full of shit.

It makes it even worse when you are more qualified than the drill sgt and the basic doctors ask you why the hell dident you get a direct commission as an engineer.

Incredible. Maybe the reason you never formed a bond/brotherhood and were disrespected is because you're incredibly selfish and self-centered. You CAN'T belong to a brotherhood when all you think about is yourself. You have no integrity yourself, you claim you were hazed and tortured, you exaggerate everything about your experiences; including your limited experience with the military. I would NEVER want you as an officer, so don't claim that you're qualified. Make up your mind. Are all military members evil, drooling morons? Or slick, fast-talking recruiters who promise the world? You do know that recruiters come from the same stock as drills.
You have VERY limited experience on what the military is all about, and you had a bad one. Since the world revolves around you, you think this is the norm. It is not.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: patoloco,

Im not qualified to be an officer but I am very qualified to be a pilot. Since you have to be an officer to be a pilot, becoming an officer was more of a formality than anything to me, I just wanted to fly.

Just make sure when you lose control of your stunt plane, that you steer it clear from the crowd of spectators. I doubt you'll make it through the rest of your flight training. I'm sure somewhere along the line you're gonna do something stupid and your instructor will yell at you and call you a moron. Then airshow crowds will be safe again.

I am going flying tommorrow with my instructor that got me to solo and X-country status so we will see what happens, he has never acted crazy before so tomorrow should be no different and he is an ex-marine. Professionals tend not to scream and yell or even calmly say crazy things. Instead of yelling and screaming they selectivly associate. The real world is not army boot camp and plenty of people are successful that have never been in the military.