This thread is a direct result of ongoing debate on the thread dealing with the question of a military draft.

The impetus for most of the talk concerning conscription was the effort of a small handful of politicians trying to tar and feather President Bush with an obviously unpopular topic. Only problem was that no one voted for their measures; not even themselves. The topic of the draft has faded from most public discourse except among military audiences. What has kept it alive with prior and active duty military is the recent short comings of Army and Marine Corps recruiting goals.

Both branches are bearing the vast majority of the combat brunt though only one of them, the Army, is having real issues with signing up enough recruits.

So the crux of the matter is whether or not the Marines actually have a recruiting problem on their hands, and if so, what do they do about it.

While recruiters exceeded the number of volunteers who actually shipped off to basic training, at 103 percent of their March goal, they were just shy of signing enough new contracts, said Marine Corps Recruiting Command spokesman Maj. David Griesmer.

Recruiters missed that target by 56 new hires out of the 3,055 they were ordered to sign up in March, making 98 percent of their goal.

Stars & Stripes Article

Writing contracts differs from sending warm bodies in that most people don’t ship out in the same month they sign their papers. This is how they could ship 103% of their goal for March but still somehow miss their overall target.

I know you won't consider a draft so I don't see many alternatives that don't involve changing the standards some.Soon you will start taking people with tattoos, next will be body piercing. Then you've got the Dirty Dozen option which I personally like.

Just read an article that todays teens volunteer extensively, at a rate not seen since the 60's. They volunteer for a lot of stuff but not the Army or Marine Corps.

You speak of the draft increasing anti-war sentiments but I think that's incorrect. I think the war causes anti-war sentiments. These guys, who used to be willing are now filled with images of war and they have decided they would prefer not to get shot in this one. Doesn't mean they won't fight but they've taken a referendum on this war and the results speak for themselves.

Perhaps your take on it is somewhat different.

Well, Thud, I know you well enough by now that you don't typically like to encumber yourself with facts. But the Marines are still shipping their quotas for warm bodies. The Marines shipped 103% of their goal for March.

And, as I've noted elsewhere, the Army was having trouble before 9/11. (One of the DNI links.)

So, the Army's problems pre-date the war and the Marines problems are no where near the level that you so often imply.

And the draft most certainly does diminish popular support at home for the war; history is replete with this lesson.

As for our current popular support, you are indeed correct, the results speak for themselves. The Marines sent 103% of the goal for March (and tatoos have long been an issue that they've gone back and forth on. Even when I entered in 87). And the political party who is seen as mostly in support of the war on terror, retained the White House and gained a number of seats in Congress.

The war is losing popular support all by itself. I think it's at about 35% now? Your accusations of being loose with the facts is like proclaiming yourself a virgin who depends upon the kindness of strangers.

USMC Revised Entrance Exam
(revised due to missing recruitment goals, once we meet them again, the other test will be inserted)

Time Limit: 3 WKS

Name: _____________________________

1. What language is spoken in France?

2. Give a dissertation on the ancient Babylonian Empire with particular reference to architecture, literature, law and social conditions -OR- give the first name of Pierre Trudeau.

3. Would you ask William Shakespeare to
___ (a) build a bridge
___ (b) sail the ocean
___ (c) lead an army or
___ (D) WRITE A PLAY!!!!

4. What religion is the Pope? (check only one)
___ (a) Jewish
___ (b) Catholic
___ (c) Hindu
___ (d) Polish
___ (e) Agnostic

5. Metric conversion. How many feet is 0.0 meters?

6. What time is it when the big hand is on the 12 and the little hand is
on the 5?

7. How many commandments was Moses given? (approximately)

8. What are people in America's far north called?
___ (a) Westerners
___ (b) Southerners
___ (c) Northerners

9. Spell: Bush, Carter, and Clinton
Bush: ________________
Carter: ______________
Clinton: _____________

10. Six kings of England have been called George, the last one being
George the Sixth. Name the previous five:

11. Where does rain come from?
___ (a) Macy's
___ (b) a 7-11
___ (c) Canada
___ (d) the sky

12. Can you explain Einstein's Theory of Relativity?
___ (a) yes
___ (b) no

13. What are coat hangers used for?

14. The Star Spangled Banner is the National Anthem for what country?

15. Explain Le Chateliers Principle of Dynamic Equilibrium -OR- spell your name in BLOCK LETTERS.

16. Where is the basement in a three story building located?

17. Which part of America produces the most oranges?
___ (a) New York
___ (b) Florida
___ (c) Canada
___ (d) Wisconsin

18. Advanced math. If you have three apples, how many apples do you have?



19. What does NBC (National Broadcasting Corporation) stand for?

20. The Cornell University tradition for efficiency began when
(approximately)?
___ (a) B.C.
___ (b) A.D.

* You must correctly answer three or more questions to qualify
* If you are stuck on any questions, you may ask the monitor for help.

WELCOME BACK GUNNY!!

The Marines again hit their quota for shipping bodies for April but missed their quota for writing contracts. Again.

For those responsible for answering to such numbers, it must feel like someone transferring balances from credit card to credit card. "Whew! We made it again this month, I wonder how long it will take for that bill to finally catch up with us?"

It's a good thing we have an all volunteer military though. At least now, if the war isn't popular with the people, the government won't have a military to fight with. Give them a conscripted military and accountability is out the door though.

I've already predicted on two other threads that the draft is inevitable but we won't see it until after the mid-term elections (2005). Too much political damage to be had right now.

What's going to happen, since Bush doesn't have to run for election again, he'll do what's right for the party up until 05, then we'll see the draft.

The 08 ticket is going to be the anti-Bush team of McCain and Powell and they'll have no problem of course distancing themselves from W, so the GOP knows they can re-introduce the draft and still keep the White House.

Then with either a Dem or Repub administration, the draft will stay for "security" reasons and we'll see more needless blood shed as in the other adventures that never would have happened with an AVM i.e. WWI, Korea and Vietnam.