im thinking about going to college before i join. Since im joining the marines westpoint would be pointless(am i right). so what are some good marine colleges if there are any. Are they hard to get into? i think i have heard of one but u only stay for two years

US Naval Academy, from what I've heard its extremely hard to get into.

The Citadel is another one, I dont think its as hard to get into.

The Military Academies are extremely difficult to get into. You need a Congrssional Appointment to attend one. Your local recruiters or highspeed guidance counselors can show you how. Or check out their websites for more information.
Now, as a recruiter myself, I ask you to do one thing while you consider furthering your education. Weigh the cost to benefit ratio of attending college. What will it take to get you through college? How will you pay for it? Can you take a full course load, work full-time, and maintain your grades? College takes discipline and dedication, and the military will teach you that. I went to school before and during my military career, because I couldn't afford college alone. I attended a very expensive school for two years before I joined, got my associate's degree, and hurtled into debt. I am a "middle class" kid, so financial aid was limited. I got grants and Stafford Loans, but it doesn't even come close to paying for all of it. I got my bachelor's degree, letting Uncle Sam pay for it. Not to mention a car, gas, insurance, rent, utilities, clothes, supplies, books, cell phone if you have one, health care, dental coverage, etc. all cost money when you're an adult. Its a huge decision, and you need to take the time to weigh both sides objectively. I'm not saying don't go to college, I'm saying take a step back and look at the grand scheme of things. See if there is more than one way to achieve your goals. Maybe it should be college first, or military first, or maybe you can do both at the same time. There is always more than one path to victory.

Start looking into creative funding for college. I came from low income but my "moms boyfriend" as he was refered in my FAFSA made to much but because they werent married and my state does not have common law I only had to report my mom who made no money. I also applied for scholarships and was able to go to a top notch engineering school out of state. You just have to be creative.

The service academies are a good option, but there is a catch, you have to deal with hazing at the same time you are trying to keep up on study and downtime and having a life. Its all the little things that make a huge difference in the end, the nice thing about the academys is you can quit up to a year in with little to no questions asked. Sure the academy is free but you sacrafice alot to be there, I wouldent have made it through school if I dident have some down time to play halo and drink a beer between the rigors of the academics while not having to deal with an upper classman on a power trip inspecting the mirrors in my bathroom while I was taking a break.

Always remember that the military is not there to improve your quality of life, they are there to get a job done and they dont care what happens to you in the process. So if you want to do the military make sure you want to join because you want to join and not because you want college money. CavScout is right you should consider all of your options, but remember if you choose the military and figure out that it was a bad choise, they make it hard to cut your losses and move on, you will also notice alot of military members tone change when you figure out you made a poor choise. Its all good when you are going in but when you need to take some time to meet your own needs you will get resistance because the needs of the military out weight your need for an education

There is no magic formula I wish there were, and I am having a rough transition for creativly funding an education to creativly funding real estate and other investment vehicals (actually my wife is carrying me through this initial transition because we dont want to be like 90% of america, one paycheck (metaphoricly) away from homelessness. You want to put your self where you work becasue you want to not because you have to

well im trying to use college to help me in the military, not the other way around. So im trying to find the college that will help me the best

I see, there is the ROTC option, you can apply for an ROTC scholarship and they will provide a full ride if you are awarded then you will go in as an officer once you graduate. That way you get the best of both worlds, you get to experence going to a real college and get to do the military stuff too. So you would want to go to a college that has a Navy ROTC program. Also if you dont get a full ride scholarship you can join when you start college anyways and they will give you a bounus just for taking the class and if your grades are good enough you can get on scholarship starting your sophmore year so you will only have to front the money for one year.

rrpearso: Talk about education and creative funding, no problem, good advice; except for the part about quitting a military academy after a year, bad advice. You like quitting, huh? Leave the military stuff on quality of life, education in the military to the experts. My personal opinion? I wouldn't take any advice from someone that washed out of National Guard OCS, is still trying to figure out what he wants to do with his life, and is being supported by his spouse through whatever the hell an initial transition phase is. The cold hard facts, life ain't easy, but learning how to overcome and adapt and quit whining like a little girl with a skinned knee day in and day out, make it a little easier. You could quit bitching about this and that, and just accomplish your goals; but then you wouldn't have anything to complain about, which I think you enjoy investing your time in. Rather than let your actions speak for yourself, you would much rather let us know how tough you've had it. Obviously, your overpriced education with a snazzy name didn't teach you how to spell, use any semblance of grammar, or how to roll with the punches. So I'd say you got cheated by them, too. But I sure don't hear you telling everyone off about college, but thats because you enjoyed sitting on your duff drinking beer and playing Halo.

thanks cav u have helped out on all my questions on this forum. i have heard of rotc in college. And an advertizement said u can me a lst LT. once u graduate, is this true?

I don't know about 1st LT I'm pretty sure you would come out as a 2nd LT.

does a second lt have one bar? because thats what it showed.

yea your right afsp it says 2nd lt. and is there really a big difference between 1st and 2nd?

It sounds like you like to minimize down time. You cant be eating rocks all the time or else you will have no teeth. When i get all of my academic work done and have some down time the last thing I need is someone yelling at me about the cleanlieness of my mirror in my room. Its not about quiting, its about always having an exit clause in a contract. We added a clause to the contract for the condo we are buying that after all the hoopla we have a chance to do a final walk through (after the inspection, becasue its a remodel job) and if we dont like what we see we can walk away. Having an exit clause in anything is smart, why do you think companies have you sign an "at will" agreement. It seems like you like to sensationalize small snipits of what I say to discredit me (kinda like michael moore did) because I dont "eat rocks". I noticed you had no comment about EEOC as it pertains to discharges. The transition is from renting to owning, my wife is more buissness savey than me because she does contracts managment, but what you wanted to hear was that I sit at home and drink beer while she works, NOT, I like to take breaks for my own sanity, but I dont know if you would understand that because you talk like you eat rocks for breakfast lunch and dinner. All that will do is prematurly age you. It takes me like 5 or 10 min to put in a post, but if I tried to spell check it would be double or triple that time and then it would be a waste of time but 5 to 10 min is entertaining for debate.

2ond lt is a gold bar and 1lt is a silver bar, the nice thing about ROTC is you have a 4 or 6 week summer camp between your sophmore and junior year and thats it, then its just once or twice a week during the school year. You then get commissioned right our of college you dont have to go through any sgt hazing programs (basic, OCS, etc). And the once or twice a week is not bad, there are a few Pieces of shit but they are usually upper class men and dont have any real authority, they just scream and yell and you can just walk away from them back to your appartment etc.

iv been looking at grunts military site. And it shows rankings for JROTC and the officers insg. are circles. what does college rotc use? and if i do rotc in college does every one become officers after they graduate or does there rank they have in college matter what you get. and rppearso are u saying that i wont have to do basic training?

That is correct, your equivalant to basic is the summer training between your sophmore year and junior year but it is substantially less time (for AFROTC its 4-6 weeks) not sure about navy, 4 weeks is not bad to suck up some BS nonsense, you want to aviod the training that drags on for months and months and months which is what you would have to do if you dident do ROTC. What "training" boils down to is a chance for a sgt or (in some cases an officer) to haze you, its like an initiation but 4 weeks is much better than 4.5 to 5 months. And once you are an officer there is alot smaller pool of people that are eligable to raise there voice to you. Your cadet rank does not matter everyone commissions as a 2lt, cadet rank is a joke, its a pissing match between equals, I dont care if im in 200 level classes and your in 300 level classes there still students just like you. Just make sure you dont get roped into a bunch or extranious stuff outside of the regular classes (usually once or twice a week) unless your academics can handle it.

tgust: All branches, all officers do a form of basic training. Its impossible to make an officer without teaching them the basics of soldiering. Thats what Boot Camp, Basic Training, etc. is for. Teach you customs and courtesies, wear and appearance of the uniform, drill and ceremony, basic marksmanship, and so on. All ROTC programs commission you as an O-1, unless it is a special commission program, or direct commission program. Those usually are reserved for legal professionals and medical professionals. ROTC members are cadets, and not officially in any branch of service. Although many do intend it, and accepting the 2,3,4 year scholarships implies intent to serve. Cadet rank is honored, in the cadet realm, as it teaches structure, obedience, and acknowledgement of one's experience. They will be your superiors and/or peers when you receive a commission, so it is beneficial to heed what they say and do. And don't believe the hype, a 2nd LT is no expert, and is certainly not in a position to not be yelled at. A 4 year degree does not make an LT a leader. The most successful LTs I have met in my career were prior enlisted, they do indeed know what their job is. Sometimes you have to follow to learn how to lead.

rrpearso: Yes, I eat rocks. Rocks, as I know them, the ones who just don't get it. Hence, like talking to a rock. Namely, you. I don't take much time to post either. I just have a grasp of the English language, so I am not required to double-check my work, as it is fairly complete and accurate. All you see is a mean ol' Staff Sergeant in the Army. I am also a recruiter, which I'm sure people just "love." EEOC!?! Equal Opportunity? The U.S. Military is not an equal opportunity employer. You can try to find where we are a part of the EEOC, but you won't. We aren't. We don't have to be. Additionally, its equal OPPORTUNITY. Its a chance, pure and simple. If you get an RE-4 and a SPD code that is detrimental to your hiring by another organization, you had your opportunity, and they deemed you unfit for employment. That has nothing to do with race, color, creed, religion, or origin.

yea cav thats what i was thinking. i feel like i will lose alot of experience if i just jump into the military as a Lt. i feel like i want to earn my rank. Could some skinny computer person that has no leading skills join rotc. Then and the end of the fourth year still get lt. It feels like cheating. I hope rotc is really tuff then. wouldnt it take alot longer to reach lt. if u enlist as a private your first year out of highschool. i mean if the person is a good leader and a good soldier he could rise fast. But it seems if someone that wasnt born to lead takes rotc, then becomes lt. it like whoever has money for college gets an automatic spot as an officer. i could be all wrong about this though. Cav i am going career in the military so what do u think my first and second choice should be? join military right after highschool and take college while in the military and earn my way up. Or take rotc in college? do people who come right out of the college as a lt get crap jobs?

Ok Cav, EEOC (equal employment opprotunity commission)

http://www.wildmanharrold.com/labor_library/Equal_Oppor..._Employment_Laws.htm

http://www.iaam.org/Facility_manager/Pages/2002_May_Jun/legal.htm

"Military Discharges: There are four common types of military discharges: honorable, general, undesirable, and dishonorable. Undesirable and general discharges are given for a variety of reasons, and may or may not indicate that the discharged individual was found guilty of an offense. A dishonorable discharge, on the other hand, is given only to individuals whose guilt has been adjudicated. The EEOC and the courts treat less-than-honorable discharges resulting from an adjudication of guilt the same as a conviction. That is, there should be a review of the length of time since the discharge, the nature and seriousness of the underlying offense, and the relationship of the nature of the offense to the particular job applied for. If, however, an individual has received an undesirable or general discharge but has not been convicted of an offense, the discharge is, like an arrest, not an indication of guilt, and may therefore not be used as an employment disqualification."5

However the military would like everyone to believe exactly what you said and what you said is the same thing they say in basic training, but is completely false. Back ground checks are not done unless the candidate is being considered for employment pending the back ground check and if a OTH pops up it is inadmissable, if they dont hire you because of it they have to tell you what in your back ground check disqualified you and if they say an OTH you can sue them because its discrimination, it has nothing to do with race or creed. The military can bar you from relistment but the government can not deny you employment because of an OTH for a GS employee, because EEOC is there own law. Ignorance is much more expensive than the cost of the information.

Tgust: I would strongly suggest ROTC, if you go prior enlisted you will have at least 4 years in making you roughly 22 yrs old then you still have to go to school because the chances of finishing your bachlors while in the military is slim, that puts you at 24 to 26 yrs old depending on how many credits you can pick up while dealing with a military schedule. Where as if you went ROTC you would have your bachlors and your commission at 22 to 23 yrs old and can start growing your commissioned officer carrer (which retire at a higher rate etc) also your learning phase will be "suggestions" from sgts as opposed to ass chewing they have to bit there toung and say sir I think etc etc and it is probably a good idea to follow the advice, but its much better to get advice than hostile abuse.

Another option is to enlist in the national guard, then you will have your education paid for and actually have the time to use the benifit and get your degree in a reasonable amount of time, of course you will have to do alot of research about deployments and such in your state because a deployment to iraq can put a crimp in your education.

I personally dont know why the military requires you to have a 4 yr degree to be an officer because in most cases your degree in no way relates to what it was you went to school for.

no i dont want to do national gaurd. ill take your idea on rotc. but i want to be a private though. so when im a higher rank i can look back on how far i have rised. but ill get over that probably

ROTC is a wise choise, its not that hard of course I was in AFROTC and it boiled down to just passing a PT test and playing there little game, you can still get all of your experence as a 2lt. A 2lt is like the private of officers but your quality of life will be much better learning as a 2lt rather than learning as a private. You typicly have more ammenities as an officer, like if you were deployed to iraq etc, as an officer you will most likely have better phone access and internet access etc. Also officers have automatic promotions up to about captian, you typically wont stay a 2lt much longer than a year and a 1lt like 2 years so you will be capt by the end of a 4 yr hitch and once you hit major and lt col you will be sitting pretty sweet, basicly only a general can chew your ass at that point and you can get away with crossing your arms, and how many generals do you see walking around ... not many so your probably not going to get your ass chewed for something trivial you would have to really mess up. Good luck and if you play the game smart you can put your self in a sweet position, but if you try to be GI Joe your going to get railroaded.

The direct commission option is the best but you have to be a doctor, lawyer, nurse, or a chaplian to qualify, all other professions are not considered to be professionals by the military.