hyperion as a rebuttle to you saying that the guns criminals use are stolen from civvies every couple weeks in the newspaper i see a new bust of 909087908729087592 dollars worth of cocaine and a list of gun that were also seized out of 15 in the most recent one only two of the guns were legal to own was a remington shotgun that was chopped to hell and a glock 40 the rest had to short of barrels as hand guns o large capactity mags or were 1 of 5 mac 11's with stock and silencers which were fully auto or ww2 era sten guns like eveyone has been saying the criminals will always have guns and they will always be illegal

1. In general attacks by multiple assailants are rarer than single attacks. Also it is also shown that while a gun will scare people, this also makes them significantly more prone to hurt the weilder of said weapon.
2. Um, it doesn't matter what you've heard I've seen numbers and a very large portion of the guns used in crimes were either purchased legally or stolen from people who purchased them legally.

hyperion, its so very nice that you have never experienced true violence in your lifetime. You truely lead a blessed life.

Instances of multiple assailents may be rarer but that doesn't change the fact that they do happen. You wan't to be the person to tell someones family that the reason their loved one was not allowed to defend themself was because their "situation" didn't happen frequently enough? And I still don't understand how shooting the assailent will only make him angry. I guess i just don't see exactly how a dead man can do anyone any harm.

And if all these guns are being purchased legally and then stolen then why are these raids turning up a dozen or so "illegal" firearms that can't be obtained through the regular legal channels?

1. I'm not sure what you're talking about with "all those raids"
2. It has been shown that the very presence of a gun greatly increases the risk of the assailant becoming much more violent and hurting the victim.
3. Also the vast majority of murders happen by friends , aquaintences, co-workers, or family members, just cause I trust the people I know not to hurt me doesn't mean I lead a blessed life, the random anonymous muggings and things like that actually make up a miniscule portion of all killings.

You know the actual percentage of how many murders were gun crimes was actually a pretty low percent last i heard

i might be confused, the percentage i was thinking of probably and i think might be of how many gun murders were with "cop killer" AP rounds. I'm not sure it was a year ago maybe. But yeah, as i said and others, Guns arent going away. And everyones got guns. Wow we ban guns from america. You know all that does? is take down gun murders by a couple percent and making gun running go through the roof. After all, i live in the south and i swear every house has a gun in it, and every kids got an air soft gun even though air soft guns are illegal in my county(So again, if they're illegal in my county, why do we have them? How do we have them?), I think if you ban guns every gosh damn redneck in the south is going to be going to gun runners and ordering up 12 guages from them. Seriously, banning guns? not going to work. You new yorkers say "Every damn hick in the souths got a shotgun". So what makes you think banning guns will stop them from getting guns?

another thing----
As i just said, just about everyone around where i lives got a gun. I havent heard of a gun murder around these parts in the 8 years i've lived here, except for when you get to the really big actual dallas urban area(the area i live in has lotsa houses, but cant be considered a "big city"*

"These Raids" was reffering to winni's post about a seizure of guns and drugs.

Again while the presence of a gun may increase the risk of an assailent becoming more violent the presence of a bullet in his chest should remedy that situation rather quickly.

And no matter how "miniscule" a portion of killings perpetrated by strangers is that doesn't change the fact that people have the right to defend themselves in any way possible against ANYONE. That includes friends, aquaintences, co-workers, and family members.

Even if guns where somehow banned, the fact of the matter is that it would be impossible for any governing body to locate and confiscate all of the guns already in circulation. And like USMC-someguy pointed out gun running would go through the roof.

I do not beleive that the US is anywhere ' ready willing or able' to ban guns outright , except for duly authorized rpresentative of the law ', etc. etc.


There is also the debate over the Constitutional Rights under the 2dn Amendment [ whicvh the Supreme Court has yet to rule on ]

whether guns come from those stolen from legitimate owners, are ' purchased' on the black market or are smuggled from outside the US [ crateload of AK47's anyone? - Russia's production of such babies is 85% for ' export ' ]is also not an issue.

While many point at the ' effectivness' of canada's gun control laws, one thing is clear. it is a ' national policy' and [un]-[mis] enforced across the country equally.

If this national enforcement of existing gun laws in the US was applied and the various state laws on purchase, ownership, storage and licencing/training were unified/made consistent across the country there would not be the problems of New York making it difficult to get a gun while any one with a library card with his photo on it can walk into Virginia and buy a gun a day. In one state you got to have a hand gun in a locked box in the trunk of the car when 'travelling' in another you can jam that 357 into your belt/waistband and head into any Quickie Mart for a slushie without blinking..

Consistency in the laws and enforcement of existing laws would go a long way to reducing a manifold number of killings/injuries leaving the police to better deal with the youth gangs, organized crime and ' disaffected militias' who want to stockpile RPG's to fend off Armageddon.

actually, its on a belt clip when I go to get my slurpee.

By any chance did i mention everyone thinks britians fing stupid because thier cops dont even have hand guns?

*episode of british cops*
Cop: Its 11:37 am, we're driving around the london blvd responding to an armed robbery.
*cop pulls over and gets out and goes with like 10 other cops and get behind thier cars from the entrance of the bank*
Cop: *On megaphone* COMEOUT WITH YOUR HANDS IN THE AIR
*robber comes out waving a 9mm*
Cop: SHIT HES ARMED! LET HIM HAVE IT! *they all pull out whistles from holesters and start whistling*
Robber:
Robber: ...
robber: screw this i'm going to america
robber: *Robs a bank*
*20 cops with 9mms and AR-15s rush him and knock down then handcuff him*
Robber: OOO YES I MISSED YOU GUYS SO MUCH

Unlike police in most other countries, the majority of British police officers do not carry firearms on standard patrol; they do however carry extendable batons and CS/PAVA spray.

There are, however, exceptions. Every territorial force maintains specialist armed response units, while one territorial force (the Police Service of Northern Ireland) and two of the national, special police forces (the Civil Nuclear Constabulary and the Ministry of Defence Police) are routinely armed.

Armed Police carry a combination of weapons, German Heckler & Koch MP5 Sub Machine gun, Heckler & Koch MSG901 Sniper rifle, Heckler & Koch Baton Gun (fires rubber bullets) Heckler & Koch G36C and a number of specialist weapons such as the Remington pump-action shotgun.

So the assertion that British Police are unarmed is not entirely accurate. By the by, thegunny was born in Liverpool.

Saw this, thought it appropriate to topic...

Indeed. Think about it.... Guns are ingrained into american blood and culture. They were there when we won our revolution, they're what we hunted with pretty much our countries whole history. Its a part of america! Guns have helped shape america! I'd rather hunt a moose with a High caliber rifle or something then having to waste some 4 centuries worth of progress and hunt with a damn bow! Are we going to have to spend all day just to take down one elk like the vaqueros did with the bulls/cattles or what ever?

Ben Franklin said that democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner liberty is a well armed sheep casting his vote. "THE RIGHT OF THE--(PEOPLE)-TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS" the PEOPLE means us, we are the malitia we are the people and we are the government. WE the PEOPLE of the united states, it does not say we the government of the us. So I think perhaps that re reading this document is in order for some. As for those gun ban people, well like rosey O she seems to understand the importance of protection just because she hates guns she has no problem with an armed bodygaurd to do it for her. I pray that you who have never had anything bad happen in your life never do, you can sit back in your cozy little home and fight against guns because you have nothing better to do with your life and when you have cast away all your brothers whom believe in the right to bear arms don't come crawlin to us for help when you need it because you want to take away the one right that makes all the others possible.
God Bless all our fighting men at home or abroad.

Heh... what'd be worse. Chinese paratroopers landing in a ghetto or in a trailer full of rednecks with shotguns?

trailer park'