quote:

Originally posted by HarryP:
A great many of the people who “minister” to the very poor live much better and not very near them. They have cars and live in nice houses with money they collect in the poor churches. This is well documented. No one says that they have to suffer but there certainly were no vows of poverty or any suffering with the afflicted. They are simply too disconnected with the poor as many of us are.

As for the poor in the three effected states – it is about 50 percent black and 50 percent other (mostly white) but the white people are more dispersed throughout the states and not concentrated in an urban area as are the blacks.

Throwing money at these people will not help them and we all know that but putting the onus on them for the situation they were place in because of a storm is hardly a way to help them or us for that matter. The adults may well be beyond our help but their children are reachable and we cannot give up on them.

Here is the dilemma of the race issue.
White people do not feel threatened because of the color of their skin.They are disenfranchised because they are POOR.
Black people feel threatened because of the color of their skin.They feel disenfranchised because of race,not because they are poor.
Blacks unite in being black,not poor.Whites do not unite in being white or poor.
I always hear about "black churches",never hear about "white churches".Why?
Race will always be a deciding factor in social/economic reform.It can be no other way.

You must have never visited the south before the 70’s because there where white churches and white establishments as well as white rest rooms and water fountains. There were even white sides of the street on which to walk.

There are still some communities’ referred to as white communities now and then so your argument holds no water. Why even make race an issue in this whole thing?

The whole pop-psychology thing does not work because the identity of black people by their skin color goes on all the time in the white community and they are identified as black and, therefore, a criminal by many people regardless of whom they are.

Prejudice exists in this world and all of these posts which attempt to draw attention towards black people as a whole (the term some or many does not proceed the phrase black) is nothing but fodder for the narrow minded.

So,when white people draw attention to race they are bigots,when black people draw attention to race .....What?
Harry,I was born in Texas in 1954.I know that blacks have been oppressed in the past.That doesn't mean they get a free ride in the present.
Take your liberal guilt elsewhere.Don't presume to speak for me when you cry that "prejudice exists in this world",Last time I looked there were plenty of Doctors,lawyers,military,etc.of color.
You cannot seperate race from socio-economic issues.Only a white person would be that arrogant....and racist,to pretend the color of skin means NOTHING.

Harry I agree with firstborn I am older than both of you probley I have been in the North ,South I was in Charleston SC when Martin Luther King made his Selma March at the present there is more Racial motovated Black People in the USA than there are Whites and have been for more than 30 yrs.Any problem comes up in a African American community it automaticaly becomes a Racial issue spoken by truly people who hate white people and believe you me there is plenty.

Don't want to pick open any scabs or re-open old wounds but from an outsider's perspective I find the issue of ' race' quite unique in America in its openess and the agendas to which both sides assign it..

There was an article the other day in the main press up here about the high incidence of white families [ Canadian ] adopting black babies/kids [ American ].. Seems that the single moms and whatnot south of the border think there is less racism and a better climate for their kids to grow up in in Canada than in the US.. At the same time the US is one of the highest ' importers' of oriental kids as Americans adopt children from China, Cambodia, etc.. [ e.g. Angelina Jolie et al ]...

What got me scratching my poor canuckle head was comments by ' prominent ' black spokespersons decrying the fact that black kids are going to be brought up ' white' in Canada thus denying them access to their' culture '..

So I got to ask, at the risk of being dumped on mightily, what is Black Culture in America and how is it different from ' Regular' American Culture [ I won't say White Culture, 'cause, well, you know - Redneck or Suburban Depsarate Housewives/ OC stuff??]..Black Culture - prison chic? profanity? bling bling? rap gun carrying pimping, drug users? or hardworking rising middle class entrepreneurs seeking what ' everyone else ' has searched for - a piece of the American Dream...

without bringing Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson to my door.. is there anyone who can explain this?

Rocketeer,it is a conumdrum here in the states.
Even in your question you were hesitant to ask about "white culture"but wanted to know about "black culture"
That is why people tiptoe around skin color.It is important.It is who we are.
Ghetto trash,white trash,bling bling,whatever.
As there are whites who aspire to work hard and "get ahead" so are there blacks.As there are blacks that want to get high,not work ,live on the dole,so there are whites.
My only problem with Harrys analysis was that you cannot deny a person the ability to identify him/herself through the color of their skin.
I think your signature line says it all.......the whole bloody world needs to get their hairy ass down to the seminar room,and we know that just can't be done.
I still love ya Harry.......uh,in a manly,non-sexual kind of way.

Rocketeer- People like Jessie Jackson & Al Sharpton and a lot of other Religious leaders are the very people that are the one who cause all of the problems people who want and need those open wounds to never heal we also have a lot of converted Black Muslins and some of those their sole purpose is to hate and condemm all Caucasion Americans.Most average African Americans don't consider their Culter as an issue there will always be a mixed race issue in the US when it comes to Black & White.

Firstborn: Don’t lay your lame excuses on me either. You tend to lump people into groups based on one criterion which is the point that I am arguing not your idiotic notions of what constitutes racism. Do you think that I am unable to see the point you keep trying to make ?

I have friends who are black and none of them really discuss race or use it as an excuse for why they succeed or fail – they base that entirely on circumstances other than that. So if you whish to lump all people of color into one group and condemn them – be my guest but try to remember that we do not all buy that crap.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: HarryP,

Sully -- I am not arguing the points you made and I am fully aware of people who have racial hatred. It just bothers me that wholesale lumping of people into ready categories and then making judgments on them as a group without qualifiers. If I hear it from someone black, I let them know that I think they are bigoted.

My family is from Tennessee, rural ridge runners (though not un-educated bumpkins) whos community did not tolerate black people even driving through their town. I just never bought into that whole thing because I did not see the point.

Attitude has more to do with this issue than hard facts because it gets all blown out of proportion by both sides. I know that power entails control and control requires a source on which to feed, such as race. There are a number of black leaders who keep the race issue alive because they would have no power base otherwise – but not all.

Additionally, I just do not remember all of those white people hanging from trees because they offended black people. Maybe the basis for understanding will just take longer.

Harry I agree the only thing I was saying is some people don't want us of this generation to forget about those hangings and move on I was born a Mid-Westerner I never saw a African American until I was 17 yrs.old but since then I have saw Centeral LA Burned down twice I have saw Dr Martin Luther assinated I have saw first hand bigiotery both Black and White. But I have saw a huge Black Muslium movement build itself here in our Country.Why the Muslium movement because because a lot of Black Americans and Whites are taught to carry their hatered on and on .

Sully: You get my point. Hate is generally brought about by ignorance or a desire to shortcut the process of attainment as well as a personal affront. To hate a race of people because of what some members of that race did to one of your family members or a friend is just as bad as hating an entire race because of skin color. A mind that narrow can be difficult to penetrate and enlighten.

quote:

Originally posted by HarryP:
Firstborn: Don’t lay your lame excuses on me either. You tend to lump people into groups based on one criterion which is the point that I am arguing not your idiotic notions of what constitutes racism. Do you think that I am unable to see the point you keep trying to make ? "
Harry,you better up your medication.
Where do you see any hatred in my posts?You see what you want to see,and you want to see racial hatred.
So, tell me Harry,why you deny the color of skin is important?Ask your black friends if their skin color is important.I'll bet the answer is "Of course".Yet your racism does not allow a caucasion to be allowed to be proud of their skin color.Instead you see the "KLAN" and all other matter of filth instead of someone who is proud without hating anyone else because of the color of their skin.So,if a black man is proud to be black it's ok,but if it's a white man it's a racist conspiracy.

"I have friends who are black and none of them really discuss race or use it as an excuse for why they succeed or fail – they base that entirely on circumstances other than that. So if you whish to lump all people of color into one group and condemn them – be my guest but try to remember that we do not all buy that crap.

Wow,you have black friends.Why how very enlightened of you.
You are ashamed to be white,and God forbid a white man says he is proud of his heritage.Call the RacialPolice!But when a black man says he is proud to be black,wipe a tear of happiness from your eye.All people should be proud of who they are.And yes Harry that means white folk too.

quote:

Originally posted by HarryP:
Firstborn: Don’t lay your lame excuses on me either. You tend to lump people into groups based on one criterion which is the point that I am arguing not your idiotic notions of what constitutes racism. Do you think that I am unable to see the point you keep trying to make ? "
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Harry,you better up your medication.
Where do you see any hatred in my posts?You see what you want to see,and you want to see racial hatred.
So, tell me Harry,why you deny the color of skin is important?Ask your black friends if their skin color is important.I'll bet the answer is "Of course".Yet your racism does not allow a caucasion to be allowed to be proud of their skin color.Instead you see the "KLAN" and all other matter of filth instead of someone who is proud without hating anyone else because of the color of their skin.So,if a black man is proud to be black it's ok,but if it's a white man it's a racist conspiracy.
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"I have friends who are black and none of them really discuss race or use it as an excuse for why they succeed or fail – they base that entirely on circumstances other than that. So if you whish to lump all people of color into one group and condemn them – be my guest but try to remember that we do not all buy that crap.

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Where is the condemnation Harry?Take off your self hating glasses and read what is,not what you want it to be.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: firstborn,

Firstborn: If you wish to get into the insult phase because you are unable to understand what people are saying -- have fun. Your ignorance and lack of understanding of the written word amazes me to no end.

Drawing your amazing conclusions from my comments tells me you lack the ability of cognitive reasoning or are just too stubborn to realize that I am discussing a point and not insulting you (unless disagreeing with you is an insult).

And by the way, I can trace my family back to the 1200’s through genealogical research. My family has been in this country since the 1600’s and has fought in all major wars and they did not all make it back alive or unwounded. They were pioneers and some of the first white people to settle parts of this country. I am well aware of my heritage and the history that my ancestors helped make. You know nothing of me and to think that you do based on the discussion of a single subject is a rather narrow minded approach to things you may never understand.

If you wish to trade insults instead of discuss the issue – than be small and enjoy yourself. I would just as soon go back to discussing issues.

What personal insults Harry?I responded to what you "claimed" to know.And now you claim I'm ignorant.Why?Because I am a proud white man?Or should I hang my head in shame by fact of being Caucasian?Oh,and by the way,I am also 1/8 Choctaw tribe.So there goes your "white supremacist" theory.
What does your genealogy have to do with what we are discussing?You are an obvious self hating white man......and you bore me.Go to your thesaurus and look up some words for this:
Self hating liberal.
By the way,how many slaves did your ancestors own?