Appropriate for this topic?
I hate conspiracy theories, but this one has proven to have some validity. This article details "The Project" and the long term goals of the Muslim Brotherhood for global domination.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Printable.asp?ID=22415

and people still wonder why we are taking the fight to them.

People are not wondering why we are taking the fight to them they are wondering why it requires mass deployments and whole conutry occupations instead of mass bombings. I dont see isreal trying to take over the middle east they just kill them and thats what we should be doing not trying to create a democracy that most of them dont want. The army was never designed to be peace keepers, we should have went in and went out not hung out for years and years in the desert with 12-24 month deployments. When your wife or husband, friend or fellow citizen is deployed for that long it might as well be in our back yard. We should not be interjecting in a civil war with "boots on the ground" but instead with bombing missions and massive devistation, why do we spend all this money on this stuff if we dont use it, I would rather burn up some munitions (money) than have my friends deployed for 24 months over and over again. It is way to political just like vietnam was, the location is different the weapons, etc but the politics are about the same. We should have nuked hanoi (I dont know how to spell it but it wouldent have a name if we did what we should have done, because it wouldent exist) or we should have never entered to begin with, but to enter and do it half assed is BS.

Thats just my opinion though

rppearso, if you had bothered to look up a little history of the Army, you might have noticed that they have been used to keep the peace on several occasions. Look under General Winfield Scott and you will find a few of them.

People are not wondering why we are taking the fight to them they are wondering why it requires mass deployments and whole conutry occupations instead of mass bombings. I dont see isreal trying to take over the middle east they just kill them and thats what we should be doing not trying to create a democracy. We should have went in and went out not hung out for years and years in the desert with 12-24 month deployments. When your wife or husband, friend or fellow citizen is deployed for that long it might as well be in our back yard. We should not be interjecting in a civil war with "boots on the ground" but instead with bombing missions and massive devistation, why do we spend all this money on this stuff if we dont use it, I would rather burn up some munitions (money) than have my friends deployed for 24 months over and over again.

Thats just my opinion though.

How is that HarryP, now instead of picking out an obscure point I made it easier by only including the core argument.

I dont care about some general, I care about the fact that it is a prolonged occupation and deployments can last as long as 24 months or longer in some cases, thats the core point. Or the fact that they are back door drafting garudsmen and reserves to prevent having to draft because they dont want to take political responsibility for the repurcusions of a draft, and people are seeing thourgh it all.

So its better to simply carpet bomb everything in sight?

You know, I served in many places, seen many things in my career, but nothing ever prepared me for the reactions of people who have never had any true understanding of why our country does what it does, or even really understood what it means to actually serve one's country. The only time they really have ever placed thier life on the line for anything was when they drive to the store for cigarettes without wearing a seat belt.......

The mantra of we should nuke em all, or carpet bomb them into extinction rather than actually use our armed forces for what they are meant for, is only spoken by those that don't have a freakin clue.

Lengthy deployments? Using Reserves to augment our forces? Activating National Guard Units? Whats so wrong about the country doing this? Should not the country get a return on its INVESTMENT in these people? They all take a monthly paycheck and benefits don't they? They all signed up to serve the country, didn't they? I served my country for twenty years, in some godawful places and situations, now its their turn in the hotseat.

By the by, just who actually caused the most US military losses in Vietnam? Do a little research on casualty rates from start to finish, and run the timelines through your mind. Where and when did our casualties really rise? What was occurring to do this? Who were the key players that had a direct impact outside of our military and political leaders?

Quit shooting from the hip on things of which you know nothing about.

"Lengthy deployments? Using Reserves to augment our forces? Activating National Guard Units? Whats so wrong about the country doing this? Should not the country get a return on its INVESTMENT in these people? They all take a monthly paycheck and benefits don't they? They all signed up to serve the country, didn't they? I served my country for twenty years, in some godawful places and situations, now its their turn in the hotseat."

There is nothing wrong with a draft either, and a draft would hold the politicians politically accountable. I have a job and take a pay check and education benifits and I have to go to the arctic circle for a few weeks out of the year some times, but that is a far cry from being in a forign contry for 2 years almost straight especailly when you have a family, wife, etc. Alot of people in the guard join to help out there state, make a difference in there community etc not leave there family for a year to occupy another country and correct me if im wrong but the national guard is feeling the biggest hit in recruiting because the mentality and goals of a potential gaurdsman is much different from that of a active dutyman, people dont want to be back door drafted so they just dont join. You may not see the decrease in active duty because they may want to go to war or all over the world etc but guardsmen typicly dont want to, but im pretty sure this war is hitting the guard bad. You can bring up WW2 but in WW2 they had a traditional draft along with guard deployments so it wasent back door everyone was going (unless you were a physisit at los alamos, they actually barred my grandfather from enlisting in WW2 because he was a coal miner and supplyed coal to the whole military in my neck of the woods).

I dont have a PhD in vietnam war history but we learned a few things in my AFROTC classes about the massive mistakes made like not being able to bomb a SAM until it was completely errected.

Im not shooting from the hip and I dont think lengthy deployments are ok and I dont think national guard deployments are ok at all unless we have instituted a traditional draft first. With a traditional draft we could dramaticly reduce deployment times.

I guess I dont understand since I have not went out and stood in the desert and had iraqis take shots at me, I dont see how that is going to better my understanding of anything. We nuked em all in japan I dont see why wars since are any different other than the politics. I think the military should be used to fight wars not mediate civil wars and occupy countries.

1) Technically, nuke isn't a proper term for Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Nuclear bombs as we know them nowadays are Fission Triggered Fusion Bombs, as where Fat Man and Little Boy were Implosion Triggered, and Gun Triggered respectively. Our nukes go supercritical, therefore yielding a much much more devastating power, with more than the estimated 15% radiation yield of an A-bomb.

2) For all your talk about human rights (i.e. your alleged abuse and hazing), you sure don't give a flying f**k about Iraqis, and their inherent human rights TO LIVE. We should slaughter the innocent because they are guilty by association with the Mujahedin and Fedayeen. Thats the dumbest, most hypocritical thing I've ever heard someone say.

3) For the record, the draft is here, alive and well. Its called SELECTIVE SERVICE. Read about it, I know it, I did my thesis on it. National Guardsmen cannot be drafted because they are already in the service of the government. They can just be Federalized and taken if need be. Thats how the Federal government (aka Big Dog) controls the Nation of states (aka Little Dogs). Its called politics, check it out.

4) Name one unit in the Guard that was deployed for 24 months. It hasn't happened, so quit bitching. The Guard hasn't been hurting from deployments, and they're on point for their recruitment numbers, so you have no idea what you are babbling about.

5) If you had a clue about warfare, you'd know you cannot invade and leave. This is a topic you should avoid. You know nothing of the Laws of Land Warfare, nor Military History, nor History in general, or how it applies to conducting combat operations against conventional/unconventional forces.

rppearso: If you are going to represent your statements as fact, than be prepared to be called on them. Since it is obvious that you know very little of history and even less of military history, why try to sneak in a statement that is presented as a fact. My statement is true – reading cures ignorance. You seem to be avoiding the cure because it might alter your opinions and, thankfully, only God knows what causes them.

Part of the process of having a dialog with people is to share ideas and beliefs that may differ from our own. It is fine to disagree, we all do, but it is not good to completely ignore the ideas of people who have had more experience is life than you have had in your short existence.

I do not agree with what everyone says on this site and I am not afraid to let them know that I do but I at least listen and, yes, learn from them. We have very similar experiences in many areas but totally different ones in others so the discussions stay on topic most of the time because we know that the sharing of ideas is healthy. Why you might notice some day is that we generally only discuss things for which we have knowledge or experience or we encourage others to share theirs so that we might have an additional source of information.

It is my opinion that we need to do more to curb the brotherhood. Go for the pocketbook and be unforgiving with the results, but be COMPUTENT when prosecuting people!

"For the record, the draft is here, alive and well. Its called SELECTIVE SERVICE. Read about it, I know it, I did my thesis on it. National Guardsmen cannot be drafted because they are already in the service of the government. They can just be Federalized and taken if need be. Thats how the Federal government (aka Big Dog) controls the Nation of states (aka Little Dogs). Its called politics, check it out."

Ok, the draft exists but they are not actually drafting people into service unless im missing something in the news. This seems to be a point that keeps getting confused either that or you just want to argue semantics, when myself or anyone I know thinks of the draft being started they think draft numbers being called and people actually getting drafted, and as far as I know its not happening and it should be that way the politicians butts are on the line for this war and thats how you will see how much they truely support the war if they are willing to put there carrers on the line for it.

Gaurd units are not being deployed that long, active units are, but they have familys and lives too. Even a 12 month deployment is to long for guard units, no deployment should be much more than 3 months in my opinion and with people being drafted it would off set the burden that currant military members have to sholder.

Im not a hypacrite if we have to fight a war then we have to fight a war, its when we grab ass around about it instead of getting it done that I dont like and I dont have a problem with nuclear weapons in fact I think we should nuke iran but make sure the wind is blowing towards pakastan. I think you just like calling me a hypocrite because you should know there is a difference between human rights and self defense.

Japan was pretty hard line until they got nuked then the emperor thought maybe its not such a hot idea for us to keep this war going.

Anyway its all a wash, the government is going to do what its going to do its how you as an individual choose to participate in theoes decisions that makes the difference.

I agree. I chose to support the government that provides me with everything in this country, and fight the enemy. I went there and made a difference in my world. By bullet or helping hand, I made a difference. I will go back and fight, bleed, and die if need be, in that country in a heartbeat; just so long as my fellow Americans never see/experience it.

I called you a hypocrite because you have been crying about your rights and liberties being violated, but you will be quick to jump on the nuclear bandwagon, and slaughter millions of innocent people. That doesn't match up. You cannot view your treatment in Basic as unethical and wrong, and view nuking a foreign country as right. Its a textbook example of hypocrisy. There are plenty of people that are indeed innocent, and punishing them with a nuclear holocaust was a lesson already learned.

"My God, what have we done?"-COL Paul Tibbets, Pilot of the B-29 Stratofortress Enola Gay after bombing Hiroshima.

He simply ignores what he does not understand which is about everything from what I can see.

What he did was save 40,000 or so of his own men. there would have been more death from a land invasion than from the bomb. I say use nukes becasue it seems the goverment wants to fight this war half assed and short of a draft thats the only thing that is going to clean up bushs mess or just pulling out and leting them have there civil war, if there were a draft it would dramaticly reduce deployments and allow us to better maintain a force at home as well as in iraq. You can say omg what have we done because of the melodrama that goes through your mind because its a big bomb, we killed more with napalm in tokeyo than with the nukes, but you dont hear about that much. BYW the pilot of the Enola Gay was a Sigma Nu.

Ever been to Hiroshima or Nagasaki? I have. Ever seen a complete human shadow permantently etched in concrete? I have. Ever stood at ground zero of a nuclear blast? I have...twice. Anyone that advocates use of those weapons really needs to spend some time in both of those cities.


You know nothing about waging war. You have never experienced anything that even comes close to it. Geez, you've probably never even been in a fist fight before. Even with your limited military experiences, you know nothing.

You are also correct, but tell me anything that is inacurate about my last post. I have never been in a fight because I avoid situations that could potentially lead to assult, getting into a fist fight is foolish. Nukes are a way to send a message that its not a game to blow up our buildings or bomb our buses, so for every trade tower you take out we will take out a few whole cities. You have to keep in mind these are just my opinions, the government is going to do what it is going to do, and my opinions may be nonsense, thats why im not the one making these decisions.

But one thing I know for sure that because I have the aptitude to be a pilot and the degree to be an officer does not mean I am cut out to roll in the mud with infantry. Not everyone is cut out to serve in every capacity, if you had a direct commission doctor and gave him a gun and had him go on a X mile road march and the whole nine yards screaming and yelling and all, chances are he is not going to make it that doesnt mean he is a bad doctor or he is dishonorable but that is how I am treated just because engineers and pilots are not given the same respect as doctors and chaplins by the military.